Transcription
00:00:10:05 – 00:00:20:15
Speaker 1
All right. We got a very, very special episode today. We have a guest this our second run it, an in-studio guest. And I’m happy to have Jeremy Flynn, chief marketing officer of Stone Road.
00:00:20:15 – 00:00:21:12
Speaker 2
Media and.
00:00:21:17 – 00:00:22:15
Speaker 3
Ammo.
00:00:22:15 – 00:00:23:21
Speaker 1
CMO.
00:00:24:01 – 00:00:24:07
Speaker 2
Keep it.
00:00:24:07 – 00:00:29:23
Speaker 1
Clean. There you go, man. Tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, what you guys do, and.
00:00:30:20 – 00:00:50:10
Speaker 2
For sure go from there. So basically, Sturmer Media’s digital marketing agency, specifically in the outdoors, right. Hunt, fish shoot. And that’s that’s where our wheelhouse is and that’s where our passion is. You know, my background, I’ve been a hunter, fisherman my entire life, grew up in western Pennsylvania, went to Penn State, went to Mississippi State for my
00:00:50:10 – 00:01:03:12
Speaker 2
master’s degree and worked for a lot of different companies. You know, before Stone Road worked for Cabela’s corporate, which, you know, some people might think that’s kind of a dream job. Corporate life was not cut out for me.
00:01:03:12 – 00:01:04:08
Speaker 1
You would disagree with.
00:01:04:08 – 00:01:20:10
Speaker 2
I disagree with that. You know, and that kind of led me on the venture to start Stone Media and a couple other businesses in the industry. And and really that’s that’s where I’ve been for the last six years is is taking that and growing that and mainly learning from what we’ve experienced in this industry.
00:01:20:10 – 00:01:33:12
Speaker 2
And I’m sure you guys have, too. And that, you know, there’s a lot of kind of smoke and mirrors that fly out there. And so I guess maybe at some point I just got fed up with it and said, well, the only way to fix that is to actually get involved and make a difference and change.
00:01:33:12 – 00:01:46:08
Speaker 2
And so that’s kind of the foundation and of media. When we got started, it was like, listen, we understand the industry because we kind of are the end consumer here. So if we can apply what a lot of these businesses are looking for, why not make sense?
00:01:46:10 – 00:01:53:12
Speaker 2
And, you know, six years ago we ventured into that and and today we’ve got probably 22 or 23 clients and then six years.
00:01:53:12 – 00:01:55:00
Speaker 1
Yeah, that’s amazing growth.
00:01:55:00 – 00:02:09:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s been it’s been awesome team of team of 15 people full time and and do everything from web design to social media ads, graphics, you know, you kind of name it under that. But, you know, always staying in that outdoor realm because we’re passionate there.
00:02:09:10 – 00:02:24:03
Speaker 3
Were you surprised? I’m sure you’ve done your research, but were you surprised at the lack of competition or presence of companies like yours in the outdoor industry specifically? And what brings to mind is when we were at the show here in Indy two last year.
00:02:24:03 – 00:02:31:01
Speaker 3
Yeah, you were it. Yeah, a huge show. And you’re the only game in town. Yeah. For that. I mean and I was surprised by that.
00:02:31:01 – 00:02:45:07
Speaker 2
And there are other ones out there and there’s some good ones. Listen, I mean, you know, ultimately competition’s good, right? Bill just keeps us on our toes. And I know there’s some other really good companies out there, you know, where we try to differ ourselves from it, like in a show like that is, you know, I kind
00:02:45:07 – 00:02:59:19
Speaker 2
of looked at an opportunity. You got to think outside the box, right? Here’s a show full of manufacturers that basically all need marketing. Some have internal, some might be using agencies that aren’t in this industry. And so it was like, all right, well, why don’t we go out there and have a booth there to where we can
00:02:59:19 – 00:03:16:05
Speaker 2
just have meetings? It’s kind of a lounge laid back, current clients, new clients, and yeah, to our surprise, it’s like nobody else is doing this, you know? And so, you know, we do there’s I would say there’s probably a good five or six companies in this industry now, and you get more and more coming in.
00:03:17:09 – 00:03:30:03
Speaker 2
But I mean, I feel like we’ve kind of established ourselves as one of those pioneers that at least initially and do it. But, you know, I was a sports guy my entire life, so I love competition to try to keep making our company better.
00:03:30:03 – 00:03:40:19
Speaker 2
And, you know, there’s certain ones that that come and go, you know, company wise. And I feel like, you know, it’s only been six years. But in terms of digital marketing, you know, that hasn’t been around that long, especially in our industry.
00:03:41:03 – 00:03:45:04
Speaker 2
So, you know, hopefully we’re standing the test of time making it through this thing and growing.
00:03:45:17 – 00:03:57:20
Speaker 1
Sure. I want to I want to rewind a little bit because every time I get a chance to talk to someone who’s started their own business and not just started it but but is having success, I want to know what what was the moment?
00:03:57:20 – 00:04:11:11
Speaker 1
Do you remember the moment when you’re like, I can this is my thing now. This is full time. Because you talked about the struggles of working in corporate America, specifically in the hunting industry. So I would imagine there there had to be a point in time when you said, you know what, I’m doing my own thing and
00:04:11:11 – 00:04:13:06
Speaker 1
I know I can I know I can do it.
00:04:13:06 – 00:04:31:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, there was in it, you know, truthfully, it was scary, right? You know, because I’d had security and jobs and and, you know, support from my wife and my family. And and I was still we had actually started Stone Media when I was still full time at Cabela’s, like just started to dabble into it, you
00:04:31:07 – 00:04:47:02
Speaker 2
know, do mainly stuff for our for our own businesses and and, you know, it was kind of things that I saw lacking where I was working in that division that that we needed to do. So I kind of self-educated, I guess, to get to that point and I’d been working out of home for both Cabela’s just traveling
00:04:47:02 – 00:05:03:03
Speaker 2
a lot. And so there was that point where it was like, Listen, I want to be responsible for my family and be home, not traveling all the time, not being gone from my young kids at the time. And so there is a moment there where I was like, all right, you know, I think now’s the time to
00:05:03:03 – 00:05:20:15
Speaker 2
do this. What does it take? At that point, I was living in Missouri and the team members I had. We’re listening back home in southwest Pennsylvania. So it was like in order to do this, I got to pick my family up, move halfway across the country, you know, and establish myself in a place that my wife then
00:05:20:15 – 00:05:30:19
Speaker 2
was staying home with the kids. She had just left her state job. You know, I’m literally walking out on a ledge here. To be honest, though, I feel like you get kind of like the dog in the corner.
00:05:30:19 – 00:05:34:10
Speaker 2
Right? Because if I’m going to make that leap, it goes.
00:05:34:20 – 00:05:35:18
Speaker 1
Yeah, there’s no safety.
00:05:36:04 – 00:05:45:01
Speaker 2
Rover’s got to hit the road. You got to make this thing actually work. So that was that was probably the business had only been around for about a year at that point.
00:05:46:05 – 00:05:50:11
Speaker 1
And you haven’t I mean, you had to have had clients at that. Yeah, we’re having success.
00:05:50:11 – 00:05:59:23
Speaker 2
Yeah, we had done it. It was very manageable, right. Because at that point we were like, is this something that’s just going to be a side gig? Is it going to be something that’s full time? Do we actually want to have employees?
00:06:00:09 – 00:06:12:09
Speaker 2
You know, and it was there was two of us at the time that it started the company. And so it basically got to the point where we’re like, all right, I think I think now there’s something here. There’s some traction in order for me to do any more.
00:06:12:13 – 00:06:24:19
Speaker 2
I can’t keep doing my day job, too, because here’s what would happen is I’d work my day job, you know, start at 730, finish up 435, right. Spend time with the kids wife. They would go to bed at 9:00 from 9 to 2.
00:06:24:20 – 00:06:38:14
Speaker 2
That was my stone business side. Yeah. You know, and it got to a point where there were several clients that, you know, there were like, hey, we’re going to need you doing more stuff during the day. And so it was like, Okay, well, if that’s what it’s going to call for, now’s the time to take that leap
00:06:38:20 – 00:06:46:06
Speaker 3
. And we hear people talk about stuff like that all the time. People are like, Well, I want to do this. I want to I want to start my own company but don’t have time. Yeah, because I work 8 to 5 every day.
00:06:46:10 – 00:06:47:11
Speaker 1
I make you have time.
00:06:47:11 – 00:06:57:18
Speaker 3
You go 5 to 8 the next morning. Yeah. To make that work and that’s you know you get off topic a little bit, that’s what you know and I’m more interested in guys like you that like your personal story.
00:06:57:18 – 00:07:10:18
Speaker 3
Yeah. And at what point you felt you used the word leap. Yeah. These were jump JT calls, you know Jake we talked to him about at some point you do have to do jump man that’s to no safety net and you know sink or swim flier for.
00:07:10:18 – 00:07:22:04
Speaker 2
Your own safety net. I mean, you know, I’ve taken a stance for a long time, even in growing this business, you know, you got to look at what are my restrictions, right? There’s there’s always things that you can’t control.
00:07:22:04 – 00:07:36:15
Speaker 2
I get that. But then there’s things that you have full control of. And if it’s going to happen, you’re your own worst enemy if it’s not going to happen. And so yeah. I mean, did it suck staying up til two, 3 a.m. nights, just trying to get that done, getting up the next morning and repeating it.
00:07:36:15 – 00:07:39:10
Speaker 2
Absolutely. There is nights that that body’s shut down.
00:07:39:11 – 00:07:39:17
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:07:40:07 – 00:07:46:15
Speaker 2
You’re tired out. But I mean, ultimately that’s the thing. If you really want something like that to happen, you just go out and make it do it.
00:07:46:19 – 00:08:02:17
Speaker 1
You know, it’s. I like Gary Vee in small doses. Yeah, he can be a little he can be a little intensity at times, but his attitude is you just have to work. And whether it’s talking to you or Jake or any other entrepreneur I’ve ever talked to, the story is always kind of similar.
00:08:02:17 – 00:08:17:11
Speaker 1
Yeah. And it’s the approach is simple in the fact that you have to put the hours in, you have to grind, you have to work. It doesn’t make it easy, but but it’s just kind of a it’s funny that how many times you hear the story over and over again and people wonder, well, what is it going
00:08:17:11 – 00:08:23:04
Speaker 1
to take to be successful or do my own thing? Well, how many people have to have to tell you that you have to work for it?
00:08:23:05 – 00:08:25:21
Speaker 3
Well, yeah, first thing you have to do is recognize opportunity.
00:08:25:21 – 00:08:26:12
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
00:08:26:12 – 00:08:37:17
Speaker 3
100% it’s there. If you don’t recognize it, you don’t think that’s for you or I’m not capable of that, then that’s your first mistake. Yeah. And once you recognize that, like, okay, well, then what does it take to maximize the opportunity?
00:08:37:23 – 00:08:53:22
Speaker 3
Then I get it. And that’s what, you know, in social media has certainly created opportunities for our companies. Yeah. For your company projects company. It’s, you know, with the, the targeted markets are so fragmented and they’re so accessible now.
00:08:54:04 – 00:09:05:08
Speaker 3
But if you don’t know how to access them, you know, your company shows you how to access them. That’s come down and how to get your message not to a million people in of which 3000 might buy your product.
00:09:05:09 – 00:09:09:18
Speaker 3
And I can get you right to those 3000, the right people. Well, think about price.
00:09:09:18 – 00:09:24:11
Speaker 2
Think about it. Like six or seven years ago, there were business is booming with Facebook, right? I mean, there were businesses that literally made thousands, if not millions of dollars a month on sales through Facebook, just the way that they were running their pages.
00:09:24:11 – 00:09:40:04
Speaker 2
Right. In a literally probably one month timeframe. They changed the algorithms their businesses crashed under, their entire business went under. And that was one of the things that, you know, trying to be proactive as a business owner, you start to look at and you say, why would I build a business on a platform that I don’t even
00:09:40:05 – 00:09:52:19
Speaker 2
control, that ultimately somebody else holds my destiny. I’m going to pour my entire effort into a platform. And they did it. And they their businesses are no longer viable. They’re gone. And so, you know, we started seeing that.
00:09:52:19 – 00:10:06:11
Speaker 2
And now, I mean, we’re seeing it today in kind of a different format and where our lifestyle and the hunting, fishing, shooting especially, you know, is being basically suppressed by Facebook, Instagram and Google. So how many now, you know, those guys, I get it right.
00:10:06:11 – 00:10:18:20
Speaker 2
They built their business, you know, whether. Selling T-shirts or graphics design or whatever it was. And then ultimately, boom, they’re out because Facebook changes an algorithm. Now businesses are only on 2% of the time instead of 20% at the time.
00:10:19:22 – 00:10:30:07
Speaker 2
Now let’s go into the interest level of suppression of where this person shows a gun, you know, because they own a sporting goods store and it shuts down their account, shuts down their page.
00:10:30:08 – 00:10:33:13
Speaker 1
I would have to imagine you’ve seen real life scenarios with the clients you deal with.
00:10:33:13 – 00:10:34:12
Speaker 2
It’s crazy every day.
00:10:34:13 – 00:10:35:20
Speaker 1
How do you overcome stuff like that?
00:10:35:21 – 00:10:46:23
Speaker 2
I mean, you love it as much as you can, right? I mean, you know, we get a little bit away with it with on the hunting side, right? You keep it clean. You don’t show, you know, death grinning grip type photos.
00:10:46:23 – 00:11:02:16
Speaker 2
You know, you try to show more classy stuff. That said, I mean, I’ve got sporting good companies that, you know, they may sell other things. Right. But just because they sell guns, I couldn’t sell basketball if I wanted to because as soon as you go to their online store, there’s guns there and they’re like, well, we’re not
00:11:02:16 – 00:11:13:16
Speaker 2
going to support the sale. And I’m like, Listen, guys, here’s the thing. It still has to go through an FFL. There’s still background checks. There’s a there’s a process in place. It’s not like you bought that gun from somebody online and it shipped to your doorstep.
00:11:13:16 – 00:11:25:21
Speaker 2
Right. It’s still a process, just like if I walked in the store and the and it’s just to the point where like, well, that that’s against our kind of views as a company. And so it’s against our advertiser policies.
00:11:25:21 – 00:11:36:08
Speaker 1
So I would imagine it’s important to kind of diversify. You take a specific client, I have to diversify how I’m advertising for you across all of these these different mediums in order to have success.
00:11:36:08 – 00:11:36:22
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
00:11:37:04 – 00:11:42:07
Speaker 1
That being said, Facebook, social media, you can still have success on those platforms.
00:11:42:07 – 00:11:53:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. Content’s a huge piece to be able to put out there, you know, and is not that direct sales piece or that force piece of it. It’s still a great place to have that initial impression, that initial touch with someone.
00:11:53:20 – 00:12:08:06
Speaker 2
Right. But ultimately, a well-rounded. That’s why I say like, yeah, I know TV’s dying, right? We’re all in the Netflix mode or Amazon Prime TV still has a value print, still has a value there, simply because these other platforms are making it have a value by suppressing what we need it for.
00:12:08:07 – 00:12:22:09
Speaker 2
Yeah. No, I’m not saying that it’s going to be like it was in the nineties or even in the early 2000. But I mean, there’s still a value to have a well-rounded marketing plan there, right? Don’t be one of those guys who fully invested in Facebook thinking like, I’m going to make $1,000,000 a month and this is
00:12:22:09 – 00:12:28:00
Speaker 2
going to be amazing forever. They change an algorithm and your entire business goes under. Yeah, that’s the problem.
00:12:28:01 – 00:12:43:19
Speaker 3
Yeah, I see an opportunity and I wonder why things like this haven’t got so much traction in that is Facebook is becoming network television is so big and so diverse that I can’t put a hunting ad or post without Facebook worrying about what somebody else thought.
00:12:43:21 – 00:12:58:12
Speaker 3
Yeah. And so, you know, there’s going to be platforms and I know there are a couple of but there’ll be hunting related, outdoor related platforms for social media platforms, runner’s fitness, birdwatch or whatever it is. And you’ll just be, oh no, I’m not on that one.
00:12:58:13 – 00:13:04:16
Speaker 3
I’m on this one. Yeah. Because I can, I can even how many target my group and I can post whatever the heck I want.
00:13:04:17 – 00:13:11:03
Speaker 1
You can. But how many times have. How many times have you seen a hunting based social media?
00:13:11:03 – 00:13:17:08
Speaker 2
Number one, somebody said, I want to make a hunting Facebook to me. And I said, Yeah, it’s called Facebook.
00:13:17:09 – 00:13:18:03
Speaker 1
It’s called Facebook.
00:13:18:09 – 00:13:24:14
Speaker 3
And I just I think I agree with you because I’ve heard the same thing. Yeah, but I think. Go 15 years. Ten years down the road.
00:13:24:15 – 00:13:25:05
Speaker 2
Oh, absolutely.
00:13:25:05 – 00:13:30:10
Speaker 3
And then what are we going to. It’s because people aren’t going to. I don’t want Mark Zuckerberg determining who sings like that.
00:13:30:16 – 00:13:46:10
Speaker 1
That’s true. And you know, and I think with the rate of acceleration for technology and social media, you think about where we’re at with social media now, where we were at 20 years ago, it is almost impossible for anyone sitting in this room right now to say this is what social media will become in 20 years.
00:13:46:10 – 00:14:01:02
Speaker 1
I have I don’t know if there’s any way for us to tell that just because it’s going to advance so rapidly in ways that we never anticipated and how how that affects hunting, shooting, fishing. Time will tell.
00:14:01:02 – 00:14:13:14
Speaker 2
And we have found that I mean, the number of devices are out there. Let’s just go on the Apple platform. Right. Two years from now, Apple says, Hey, we just released this new social community piece that is just directly built into your phone.
00:14:13:15 – 00:14:16:05
Speaker 2
Yep. Does Facebook die? Possibly.
00:14:17:00 – 00:14:18:01
Speaker 3
It’s very possible. You know.
00:14:18:02 – 00:14:18:12
Speaker 2
I mean, it.
00:14:18:15 – 00:14:19:06
Speaker 3
Could do the same thing.
00:14:19:11 – 00:14:36:08
Speaker 2
For us. It could do the same thing. Absolutely. You know, at some point, something like that hits and it changes the game. I will say that, you know, Facebook has made it very clear that they’re reverting back to wise that Coburg started this, which was community friends, family touch, which is why all the business side of things
00:14:36:08 – 00:14:39:07
Speaker 2
has gotten so complex and the advertising is so complex.
00:14:39:08 – 00:14:43:06
Speaker 1
But ultimately, Zuckerberg is on the line to show profits to the share.
00:14:43:11 – 00:14:45:00
Speaker 2
That is publicly traded. He is.
00:14:45:01 – 00:15:00:03
Speaker 1
So so, you know, there is a safety net for the consumer on some level. But yeah, you’re right. They’ve made it. They’ve made a push for transparency and all these different things. But at the same time, I’ll turn on an ad that has a hunter who’s just killed a deer.
00:15:00:08 – 00:15:13:08
Speaker 1
And there’s no blood anywhere. There’s nothing. And it’s just him, you know, acknowledging being thankful, being grateful that he had this opportunity. And all he did was just grab the antler of the deer. My ad got flagged for graphic, violent content.
00:15:13:09 – 00:15:14:04
Speaker 2
Oh, I’m telling you.
00:15:14:04 – 00:15:26:01
Speaker 1
So, you know, they want to they want to be open and transparent. But when it comes to kind of the lifestyle that the people that we are and the people that we serve, they’re not really they’re not really allowing transparency and open dialog between that.
00:15:26:01 – 00:15:29:10
Speaker 1
So it’s it’s a little hypocritical and we just kind of try to have to wade through it.
00:15:29:11 – 00:15:42:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think at some point that’s going to come back to bite them. I mean, you know, there are certain interest groups out there that if this was happening to them on that platform, it’d be national news, it’d be all over the place, you know.
00:15:42:01 – 00:15:54:12
Speaker 2
And so at some point it’ll come back around, you know, whether it’s based on freedom of speech or impression. And I get it. You accept the terms of conditions when you when you become part of Facebook. But that said, it makes them vulnerable for replacement.
00:15:54:13 – 00:15:55:14
Speaker 2
Sure. For sure.
00:15:55:14 – 00:15:55:22
Speaker 1
It always.
00:15:55:22 – 00:16:06:14
Speaker 2
Will. You know, and I know that they’ve secured Instagram in the same fact, but anything’s replaceable, right? I mean, at some point, something can come along and displace both of those instantaneously.
00:16:07:18 – 00:16:20:23
Speaker 3
Yeah, I can see it. I mean, I was just watching something on YouTube a little bit ago and it was a there was a celebrity said, I got rid of Twitter because it’s too negative. Mm hmm. And, you know, that was the first time I was like, yeah, I could probably do without that.
00:16:21:04 – 00:16:34:11
Speaker 3
Mm hmm. I look at it every day, and it is negative, and I’m probably guilty of joining in on that negativity. But, yeah, I think it’s sometimes you almost there’s a chance we’re gonna see some sort of a backlash from people like, I don’t need this anymore.
00:16:34:15 – 00:16:38:20
Speaker 3
Yeah, I walk away from it, and I don’t know, you know, it might even be government regulation.
00:16:38:20 – 00:16:53:04
Speaker 1
We’ve talked about it. It could be. We’ve talked about it before. And Twitter is a negative place and is. But at the same time, I’ve said before that you can tailor your message to what’s coming in, what you’re consuming.
00:16:53:09 – 00:17:07:17
Speaker 1
You can tailor that 100%. So the people who choose to let the negativity find them on social media. I really have a hard time pointing the finger at anybody, even the trolls. I have a hard time pointing the finger at those people because you can you can block certain words.
00:17:07:17 – 00:17:20:21
Speaker 1
Now, if you don’t want to see words, you can block them on Twitter. So people who are seeing those things and get offended by them or turned off by them, it’s kind of your own fault. Not saying, you know, and I’m not saying that Twitter is the best place in the world.
00:17:20:21 – 00:17:25:12
Speaker 1
I’m just saying that you have control over your social media input that that you receive. So I think.
00:17:25:12 – 00:17:37:21
Speaker 2
The hardest part about, you know, whether it’s Twitter or Instagram or Facebook, you know, the trolls, I get it right. They’ve got nothing better to do than the keyboard warrior. Yeah, well, I think the bigger issue is, is the truthfulness behind it.
00:17:38:03 – 00:17:43:10
Speaker 2
So like you think of some of these celebrities on Twitter, I mean, three quarters of their following doesn’t even exist, right? They’re fake.
00:17:43:10 – 00:17:44:20
Speaker 1
Profile. They bought it, you know.
00:17:44:20 – 00:17:59:01
Speaker 2
So it’s like you start to think that or even the ones that have the platform that are stepping up and being the voice for something, you know, they’re influencing our general public in a huge fashion and it’s inaccurate.
00:17:59:12 – 00:18:08:03
Speaker 2
Right. You know, but that’s that’s what today’s community is is basically taken as a truth. I mean, how many people get their news solely from Facebook? It’s on Facebook. That’s what is.
00:18:08:04 – 00:18:19:03
Speaker 1
And that’s the negative side of the point I just made is you can tailor the input on social media, but that you can also put yourself in a bubble, too, where you’re not receiving any other, you know, conflicting opinions.
00:18:19:18 – 00:18:31:10
Speaker 3
And sadly and I think you’ve probably the older generation, they don’t know that that’s happening, even though I’m told they don’t understand it. You know, my father, who, you know is no longer with us if he saw something on TV.
00:18:31:10 – 00:18:32:18
Speaker 3
Yeah, that was that was.
00:18:32:22 – 00:18:33:18
Speaker 1
That was a big deal.
00:18:34:02 – 00:18:34:22
Speaker 3
Yeah, that’s legitimate.
00:18:34:22 – 00:18:37:01
Speaker 1
Wonder how you feel about deepfakes right now.
00:18:37:03 – 00:18:52:21
Speaker 3
Well, yes, but but my my my mom, you know, there’s people around now who. Yeah, I don’t think they quite realize that, but my mom down. Not at all. But you’re only seeing what you’ve already responded to. So Facebook knows.
00:18:52:21 – 00:18:58:02
Speaker 3
Oh, that’s what she likes. That’s what we’ll show you. And then that’s it. And you don’t get the other side yet.
00:18:58:09 – 00:19:10:21
Speaker 1
I want to I actually have a marketing question on that, because people because they can tailor what they want to see. Do you find it easier to. Target people via social media, specifically in the niche niche industry that you’re in.
00:19:11:05 – 00:19:16:20
Speaker 1
You can find these people easier because of their documented likes and interests and behaviors.
00:19:17:13 – 00:19:30:15
Speaker 2
The targeting through these platforms is unreal anymore, right? The big thing that we’ve seen, though, is with some of these new policies coming in mainly across the world, not just in the U.S., but, you know, we can’t target by household income anymore.
00:19:30:15 – 00:19:40:09
Speaker 2
Right. For a while there, we could target by household income, which means, like, if I had a high end product, I wasn’t selling it to somebody that was making less than $50,000. Right. I was targeting a higher end consumer.
00:19:40:15 – 00:20:02:16
Speaker 2
That’s now gone away. A lot of your ethnic ethnicity coming back for. That’s gone away. So there’s there’s certain demographics that still exist, right? Local interest base that you could still use and it’s very effective but man at a time for a while there I was drilling down to the person like almost to where you thought I
00:20:02:16 – 00:20:04:12
Speaker 2
was talking to you with it.
00:20:04:14 – 00:20:23:05
Speaker 1
And what’s funny is that it is scary. And we’ve had conversations about some, you know, remarketing tactics taking advantage of some of those things. But at the same time, I think there’s a people are kind of might be naive to the fact that these these social media platforms, these phone companies, these they have your information.
00:20:23:09 – 00:20:27:14
Speaker 1
We’ve had this conversation a million times. You just have to be comfortable with the fact that.
00:20:28:00 – 00:20:28:14
Speaker 2
It’s out there.
00:20:28:15 – 00:20:31:23
Speaker 1
It’s out there. Right. Anyone if they if they want to find it, they’ll find it.
00:20:32:01 – 00:20:40:16
Speaker 2
Like, I mean, do you think it’s just random that you go and look at a product on Amazon, first time you’re on Facebook, that same products there in the face, not random. Right. That’s just how this thing works.
00:20:40:16 – 00:20:41:16
Speaker 1
It’s people like you.
00:20:41:20 – 00:20:42:14
Speaker 3
Make people like.
00:20:42:14 – 00:20:43:16
Speaker 2
Me that make that happen.
00:20:43:16 – 00:20:48:05
Speaker 3
But I’m shocked at how instantaneous it is. Oh, you go from page to pages like I was just.
00:20:48:05 – 00:20:49:08
Speaker 2
On I was just looking at.
00:20:49:13 – 00:20:51:10
Speaker 1
The effectiveness is is unreal.
00:20:51:11 – 00:21:07:14
Speaker 2
Well, and I mean, the market understands, like we know for certain products that maybe it takes five impressions before we get a court action or a conversion, you know, maybe in some higher end products, it’s 20, right? And so it’s very strategic in how those are laid out over time, you know, and even how specific the messages
00:21:07:14 – 00:21:21:05
Speaker 2
are as you get more and more frequency back to the site. So at some point in time, yeah, I’m talking to you, Joel. I’m talking to you, Sean, in terms of like, hey, this I know you want this model of this product based on your history and it worked.
00:21:21:06 – 00:21:38:10
Speaker 1
That’s I think that’s what’s important to recognize about it is there are tactics that we can use to to advertise almost on the individual basis, on individual level. But there’s it’s not nefarious. It’s we’re I’m trying to give you something that you have expressed an interest and that you want.
00:21:38:16 – 00:21:50:05
Speaker 1
And I just want to give you every opportunity to make that buy buy that gun or, you know, buy this honeybees insurance policy or whatever it is. There’s no there’s no deeper, darker meaning to it.
00:21:50:05 – 00:21:56:01
Speaker 3
Should we as consumers, will be able to dial that back or off? I can’t go to Facebook or say I want no ads.
00:21:56:02 – 00:21:59:08
Speaker 1
You can you’re going to yeah, you’re going to your personal settings and you can.
00:21:59:11 – 00:22:01:09
Speaker 3
See no ads. I don’t want the ads. You can.
00:22:01:09 – 00:22:04:02
Speaker 1
Turn that. You can you can dial something damn near all the way back.
00:22:04:07 – 00:22:15:07
Speaker 2
I mean, think of all this stuff that you see. Well, not that all of it’s accurate, but how many say, hey, you need to go in and turn this privacy setting up here, otherwise you’re going to be able to, you know, mine out this information from me.
00:22:15:13 – 00:22:24:05
Speaker 2
Everything’s there, it’s controllable. There’s certain things that you accept that you’re not going to be able to take care of. You know, like if you’re on Google and you’re not logged in, you’re going to get ads served to you, right?
00:22:24:06 – 00:22:33:12
Speaker 2
Yeah. If you’re logged in, those ads are going to be more customized to you based off of your persona. Right. You know, and I think what people have to realize, like a lot of people get sick of the even the Google ads side.
00:22:33:17 – 00:22:53:06
Speaker 2
The fact is, everything on Google ads besides display is based on your searching and your history, right? Versus Facebook and Instagram, which is all interest based. Right. So you may have never engaged with any type of product like mine, but because you were looking for hunting leases, I’m going to hit you with hunting lease insurance.
00:22:53:06 – 00:23:15:05
Speaker 2
Right? So but where Google side is, is that’s an active query, right? You have looked for hunting, lease insurance or something that’s then served my advertisement for you. But I mean, the big thing that I think that most consumers still have invested in is the authenticity or the organic side of things, right?
00:23:15:20 – 00:23:32:07
Speaker 2
So to me, I could be a new business and serve you something, but at the end of the day, 80% of the clicks on that first page of Google are going to that number one result, right? Whatever whoever’s invested and been vested into that search term keyword to appear there on the search result page, that’s where they’re
00:23:32:07 – 00:23:32:16
Speaker 2
going.
00:23:32:19 – 00:23:44:22
Speaker 1
And then you start you start factoring in things like the on mobile, for example, Google took those those bottom ads because they do the continuous load on mobile now. So they took those ads and they threw those on top.
00:23:44:22 – 00:23:53:07
Speaker 1
So now there’s four at the top and it pushes down the organic rankings. It makes getting those top two spots even even more important.
00:23:53:09 – 00:24:04:21
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I mean, that’s where your ad competition is and that’s where your cost per click or your CPMs go up through the roof because now you’re vying for those top spots. And if you’re not if you’re not in one of those top ad spots, you might as well not be paying for it.
00:24:04:21 – 00:24:09:15
Speaker 2
Right. Right. I mean, you’re you’re getting some impressions, but you’re not going to get the click through that you want on them.
00:24:09:18 – 00:24:12:18
Speaker 3
Yeah. We’ve seen them down at the bottom before. Yeah. But you know.
00:24:12:21 – 00:24:13:13
Speaker 2
Yeah. Okay.
00:24:13:20 – 00:24:14:13
Speaker 3
You ever be there?
00:24:14:13 – 00:24:16:21
Speaker 1
Do everything you can do to not have it there.
00:24:16:21 – 00:24:17:14
Speaker 2
But yeah.
00:24:17:14 – 00:24:18:03
Speaker 1
Sometimes it.
00:24:18:03 – 00:24:33:17
Speaker 2
Happens. But I mean, it’s, you know, ultimately the first priority is always going to be targeting you locally. Right. What’s the most relevant to you, especially if you’re looking for restaurants or sporting goods, place or gym or whatever it might be, then beyond that, it’s going to be interest based on stuff.
00:24:33:17 – 00:24:44:12
Speaker 2
So. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s something that as consumers, you know, I think we’ve become a little bit so I guess we’ve become so comfortable to it that we’re almost numb. Right. Like, I see. I’m. I don’t. Right.
00:24:44:15 – 00:24:59:09
Speaker 2
Right. Yeah, I have records on my Facebook. I just scroll through. I don’t pay attention, to be honest. I know somebody asked me one time, they’re like, we’re doing a presentation for a proposal, right? And I had a big portion on Facebook and Instagram marketing and they’re like, Do you really think people buy through Facebook?
00:24:59:09 – 00:25:02:07
Speaker 2
I’m like, Are you serious right now? Like I said, Yes. Yeah, I.
00:25:02:07 – 00:25:02:23
Speaker 3
Got a recent.
00:25:03:10 – 00:25:04:05
Speaker 2
Fairly recent.
00:25:04:05 – 00:25:07:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, I got a business model that would show you that. They absolutely.
00:25:07:05 – 00:25:16:11
Speaker 2
Do. Yeah. I mean, it’s insane that I mean, you think about it. I mean, there’s people that, you know, I don’t know how or why now, but my phone will send me like my screen time for the week.
00:25:16:18 – 00:25:21:22
Speaker 2
Like just pop it up on Sunday, Sunday’s or something and I’ll look in a month. Wow. Yeah, it’s a lot of time.
00:25:22:03 – 00:25:22:22
Speaker 1
It’s a lot of time.
00:25:23:06 – 00:25:36:11
Speaker 2
And it’s, it’s I know for a fact that I’ve clicked on things for Facebook. I know that I’ve bought things through Facebook. I see the stats coming in from our clients like Facebook and Instagram. Ah and Google are huge sources of revenue coming in.
00:25:36:11 – 00:25:40:08
Speaker 2
If you think that people are just go into your site and buy your last.
00:25:40:14 – 00:25:54:00
Speaker 1
How hard do you think it is for guys? Let’s just I don’t know, let’s take guys who are the celebrity hunters, but they may be a guy who they just have their buddies, their camera man, and they’re doing their own thing.
00:25:54:08 – 00:26:09:22
Speaker 1
And it’s like a wild, crazy deer hunting outdoors or something. Whatever they come up with. Can can brands like that take advantage of social media marketing in leveraging because there’s so many of them out there that it’s easy to get lost, your content just gets drowned.
00:26:09:22 – 00:26:23:23
Speaker 2
Etc. It’s a pay to play game, right? If you’ve got budget and you want to put into it, anybody can get views and start growing, right? But I mean, it’s still pay to play game. I mean, what we’ve seen in the industry and it’s not knocking them by any means is it’s it’s really turn it upside down
00:26:23:23 – 00:26:36:06
Speaker 2
, right? So historically, if you think back even to like the the TNN days, right, it was like boardmasters real true outdoor. It’s like that’s all you had to watch, right? And the outdoor channels and sportsman channels and pursuits and everything come along.
00:26:36:12 – 00:26:49:13
Speaker 2
Right. And now what’s weird about it is the sponsorships are still in play, especially for the higher up people, but it’s everybody that was in the middle, right? I’m not saying that they weren’t good, but they were just middle tier sponsorships.
00:26:49:21 – 00:26:56:14
Speaker 2
This new level down below who’s either been digital and or they’ll do it for product. But I’ll tell you what, there’s some talented.
00:26:56:14 – 00:26:57:00
Speaker 3
People.
00:26:57:13 – 00:27:08:23
Speaker 2
In that group. And a lot of these people that were in that mid-level that were making just TV shows, they don’t have the value that they used to have. And that slowly but surely that that middle is going to disappear.
00:27:09:02 – 00:27:22:20
Speaker 2
What you’re going to have is top tier people that have big influencer platforms and maybe they’re still on TV, maybe not. Depends on where we go in the next 3 to 5 years. And then this whole group of people that are regional based, they’ve got, you know, really high quality cameras.
00:27:22:20 – 00:27:36:15
Speaker 2
They know how to do post-production. They know how to run social media. And heck, they may operate for little or no money in product, but if the brand can utilize them to the right way, it’s worth having ten or 15 of those instead of one of these middle tier TV guys.
00:27:36:15 – 00:27:55:20
Speaker 1
Right. And what’s interesting about that is you kind of made it seem like the middle is closing and then the top end and low end are both still growing. Yeah, but if you strictly go off the opinions of people on social media, you would think those high end, those big tier guys are the average hunter does not
00:27:56:13 – 00:28:13:18
Speaker 1
, you know, relate to that. You know, it’s just not we’ve talked about it before on this podcast. That’s not how we hunt. That’s not our approach. Yeah, on some level it is entertaining to watch, but when it starts to become like this is the norm, that’s what turns average hunters off.
00:28:13:18 – 00:28:14:06
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
00:28:14:06 – 00:28:16:05
Speaker 1
So. And you know, and I don’t know what the solution is for.
00:28:16:05 – 00:28:25:23
Speaker 2
That’s where YouTube’s breaking the mold. I mean, if I if I if I’m not watching some of those guys at the top that I’ve a good relationship with or they’re entertaining, I like their shows. I’m watching YouTube. Right.
00:28:25:23 – 00:28:37:17
Speaker 2
And I’m watching the guy who just makes stuff. It’s very low production quality, but it’s great content. I’ll give you a great example of guys recently who were Midwest Whitetail. Now are the hunting public guys killing it, right?
00:28:37:17 – 00:28:47:11
Speaker 2
105 plus thousand subscribers on YouTube in a year. These guys are putting out between two and three videos a week in content. What’s the the hunting public?
00:28:47:13 – 00:28:48:13
Speaker 1
The hunting public.
00:28:48:13 – 00:28:50:19
Speaker 2
Okay. So in primarily I’ve.
00:28:51:03 – 00:28:52:12
Speaker 1
Published into their podcast.
00:28:52:12 – 00:28:54:02
Speaker 2
On Spotify time.
00:28:54:02 – 00:28:56:01
Speaker 1
I’ve listened to it. Really. Yeah.
00:28:56:02 – 00:29:14:20
Speaker 2
These guys have broken the mold to where they’ve basically said listen, they have a few, I would say partner slash sponsors, but they’ve not built that model. They’re. Model is basically ad revenue through YouTube. Right. And so they’re putting out consistent good content, 8 to 10, 15 minute long pieces, public land adventures.
00:29:15:00 – 00:29:19:01
Speaker 2
They’re out there in the field, though. I mean, I bet in the last year they’ve been out there 200 days.
00:29:19:03 – 00:29:25:20
Speaker 1
You can’t I mean, you can’t put out three, 2 to 3 pieces of content a week at 15 minutes a clip without. It’s a lot of work.
00:29:25:21 – 00:29:42:05
Speaker 2
They’re killing it, though. Their the engagement everything that they’re doing funnels exactly what people should look at as a model. Right. They’re also 27 year old guys. Uh, only one of them is married. Couple of girlfriends. Yeah, no kids.
00:29:42:08 – 00:29:52:18
Speaker 2
You know what I’m saying? Yeah. So that said, you know, there’s you have to fit that model. But I’ll tell you what, these guys are crushing it like right now. They’re doing publicly in Turkey hunts. They just started in Alabama and they’ll work their way through it.
00:29:52:18 – 00:29:55:13
Speaker 2
They’ll do a turkey tour and basically hunt until the end of May.
00:29:56:00 – 00:30:00:01
Speaker 3
And this is just a set group of guys or a group of guys. People aren’t submitting videos.
00:30:00:01 – 00:30:15:09
Speaker 2
No set group of guys. But I mean, they’ve got they’ve got shirts and apparel and I mean, and so these guys had got their start with Midwest Whitetail, right? And that’s how I knew I worked with them when I was at Cabello’s great guys, still very, very close friends and they had this concept and it was like
00:30:15:23 – 00:30:29:12
Speaker 2
, Yeah, you know, I think that could work. But nobody had done it right. Nobody really said, We’re going to build this huge subscriber base on YouTube. Listen, YouTube heydays are gone, right? If you want to build subscribers on YouTube, it’s extremely difficult nowadays.
00:30:29:18 – 00:30:41:14
Speaker 2
And so they laid this model out and it’s like, we know this is going to take a lot of content and it’s going to have to be consistent because if people depend on a video every two days, yeah, that’s what we need to do during deer season.
00:30:41:14 – 00:30:49:14
Speaker 2
If I don’t see a video in two days, I’m text in one of them and then what are you guys doing? When’s the next one coming out? And as are all their followers.
00:30:49:17 – 00:30:51:21
Speaker 3
And they’re not harvesting deer over two days though.
00:30:52:01 – 00:30:54:16
Speaker 2
No, but they’re having encounters. Right. And that’s I think.
00:30:54:16 – 00:30:55:17
Speaker 3
That’s making that interesting.
00:30:55:18 – 00:31:07:10
Speaker 2
See, that’s the difference. Right. That’s what I want per year. Relatability, content. Right, right. Right. That’s what it’s like. All right. I hunted three days. I had encounters, didn’t close the deal. That’s just how it goes. Yeah, me too, man.
00:31:07:15 – 00:31:10:21
Speaker 2
Not like. Oh, I kind of understand. First 5 minutes, I shot a buck.
00:31:10:22 – 00:31:30:06
Speaker 1
You know, that’s kind of the essence of what we talked about on the last podcast was we we were discussing mentoring and what entails a good mentorship program or a relationship. And is it is it going out and having success or is it because I related as baseball to baseball as a game of failure?
00:31:30:09 – 00:31:34:03
Speaker 1
Right. You know, I go out hunting and I’m learning that it’s a game of failure.
00:31:34:03 – 00:31:34:17
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
00:31:34:17 – 00:31:48:11
Speaker 1
And you know, he talked about parents taking kids out and sitting for three or 4 hours, you know, in the cold, in the dark. And is that is that really the way to do it? I don’t know. Maybe for some people that is maybe for some it’s not, man.
00:31:48:11 – 00:31:59:23
Speaker 2
It’s it’s tough because. Well, we’re just talking, right? I just just bought this new for ten gauge. Right. Get my kids out turkey hunting this year. Part of me wants to just go out for an hour, let them hear the gobbles, and it’s like, all right, let’s go get breakfast.
00:31:59:23 – 00:32:11:14
Speaker 2
Right. Part of me is like, man, I really want to get him on a bird and shoot. That said, I know how hard I worked for my first bird and I think it made me a better hunter my entire life from that, you know.
00:32:11:14 – 00:32:22:13
Speaker 2
So how do you what is that? Right. One, because what I don’t do and I’ve done it right, I’ve taken my kid out. Pennsylvania rifle season in December. Right. Cold. We’re sitting there. I’ve got him wrapped up in blankets.
00:32:22:17 – 00:32:35:08
Speaker 2
I’m trying to keep them warm for 2 hours just in an evening. And I know he’s not like he’s having fun, but he’s not having fun. So then I’m in turmoil. Like, is this successful like or my turning him off from it that he doesn’t want to go out anymore?
00:32:35:08 – 00:32:46:12
Speaker 3
Well, let’s we talked about this the other day and listen, I’ve got two daughters. I took them both hunting. Neither one of them stuck with it. I don’t think I did anything wrong, frankly. They just live happily in there and they’re 24 and 27 now.
00:32:46:12 – 00:32:50:15
Speaker 3
So yeah, definitely older. But I would tell you that. How old are your kids?
00:32:50:21 – 00:32:52:01
Speaker 2
Three and seven. Okay.
00:32:52:11 – 00:33:02:23
Speaker 3
They should they’ll be the judge on whether it was successful, what they want to do, how long they want to stay. And that’s what we talked about the other day is, you know, parents want to take their kids hunting and they want to hunt like they hunt.
00:33:02:23 – 00:33:15:21
Speaker 3
And I know it’s up to them. Tell you when it’s time to leave. Yeah, let them say that was fun. Can we do it again? Yeah. You know, and so that’s what’s successful, because I would guess that your seven year old doesn’t really want to kill a bird.
00:33:15:23 – 00:33:18:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, no, literally. He just wants to go out here.
00:33:18:18 – 00:33:22:16
Speaker 3
Gobbles. He wants to be with you. Yeah, but forever you. Have you had somewhere else that morning.
00:33:22:16 – 00:33:24:14
Speaker 2
And that’s what I want. That’s my success.
00:33:24:14 – 00:33:37:00
Speaker 3
Exactly. So he’s going to go wherever you go. But we were talking about mentoring and how people are putting a lot of weight on mentoring their own kids. And, you know, that’s preaching to the choir, man. Yeah. Hey, we’re going to get into it anyway.
00:33:37:00 – 00:33:37:10
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:33:37:10 – 00:33:50:12
Speaker 3
And as an industry, we really need to start thinking about and interesting because we this was we just talked about this the other day. We’ve got we’ve done a survey here and we’ve got some data that proves we’ve got a group of people here that want a heart, but they have no direction.
00:33:50:12 – 00:33:51:05
Speaker 3
They don’t know where to, they.
00:33:51:05 – 00:33:51:22
Speaker 2
Don’t know what to do.
00:33:51:23 – 00:34:00:07
Speaker 3
And we’ve got a group of people here who feel responsible for the future of hunting, and they have not mentored anybody in the last three years. So how do we.
00:34:00:07 – 00:34:01:07
Speaker 2
How do we join that?
00:34:01:11 – 00:34:16:13
Speaker 3
And honestly, I mean, I would think as a marketing company. That’s huge. How do you tell the story? How do you get that message out there? And that’s you know, that’s where we are right now. And he started to talk a little bit about, I think hunting is being made to appear easy.
00:34:16:20 – 00:34:17:18
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
00:34:17:18 – 00:34:28:13
Speaker 3
It’s not easy. And you’re I think you’re 100% right. You know how hard it is. And if they don’t work for their first bird or for the deer, if they don’t work, they’re not going to understand it later.
00:34:29:01 – 00:34:37:16
Speaker 3
They may maybe they will now. But we are 25 or 26. They’re more likely to quit because I know I mean, I haven’t seen a deer in two days. I’m quitting.
00:34:37:16 – 00:34:47:21
Speaker 2
And I’ve heard that. I’ve heard that from several like, oh, we didn’t see anything tonight. You know, I don’t know if I really want to go out tomorrow and it’s like, Yeah, that’s hunting. I guess it’s not shooting on that side.
00:34:48:08 – 00:35:02:06
Speaker 2
You know, one thing that would be curious is that if you think about the the state of hunting right now. Right. We obviously know we’re declining population. So let’s let’s analyze where the hunting population is still growing women.
00:35:02:18 – 00:35:16:16
Speaker 2
Right. For sure. Newbies that are really right in this hole where my food comes from, organic, sustainable pieces. Right. I don’t think we cater to either of them. We’re trying to cater a little bit more to women. But to be honest, let’s look at some of the hunters.
00:35:16:16 – 00:35:19:06
Speaker 2
Is out there not a role model, right?
00:35:19:09 – 00:35:20:12
Speaker 1
Not at all. Touch on that.
00:35:20:14 – 00:35:32:05
Speaker 2
Yeah. Not a woman and not offend them. But it’s just there are some really good ones out there. Actually, I’ve got one in my office right now who. Who’s been doing an internship with me. She’s a legitimate. She killed like five birds last year in three different states.
00:35:32:11 – 00:35:34:09
Speaker 2
Right. That’s that’s a role model.
00:35:34:09 – 00:35:46:02
Speaker 1
I think the problem is there’s there’s a lack of they’re just not they don’t seem genuine. They’re not that’s that’s what is and and that’s what I was bringing up the original point on the show. I can’t remember the name of it.
00:35:46:03 – 00:35:55:15
Speaker 1
They were talking about those guys, like Sean said, they can’t be killing something every day. They’re not. And that’s part of their content. It’s genuine. It’s real deal. It’s that’s that’s.
00:35:55:17 – 00:36:00:07
Speaker 2
Why you pay 10 minutes of a 12 minute show is making a stock on a buck only to fail.
00:36:00:18 – 00:36:01:02
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:36:01:12 – 00:36:04:03
Speaker 2
But that’s that’s realistic. That’s legitimate. You know, I.
00:36:04:03 – 00:36:12:14
Speaker 3
Feel like the big shows, the big personalities, they kind of shortchanged us. They’ve underestimated as a public. Want to see. Yeah, I want to see how it really happened. That’s what I want to really see.
00:36:12:14 – 00:36:28:19
Speaker 2
And it’s kind of weird because I mean, a lot of these guys, you know, they’ll hunt and kill 45 things in a year, right? And then I’ve got 13 episodes. They haven’t embraced the digital side and I got 13 episodes, 22 minutes apiece in order for you to condense your entire year for me.
00:36:28:23 – 00:36:30:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. How are you going to tell me a story in that?
00:36:30:17 – 00:36:36:19
Speaker 1
It’s hard to do, man. And maybe it’s just a lack of understanding of how to market on social. Yeah, just in general, there are.
00:36:36:19 – 00:36:47:12
Speaker 2
Some that are doing it well. Like there’s, there’s definitely some that are embracing the digital platform to really tell the story and then they still got the show side. But those who are just like rooted in a show like this is where my content is.
00:36:47:16 – 00:36:55:12
Speaker 2
You’re going to die. Yeah, it’s going to it’s going to fall off. Your show will end because you can’t tell the story that your consumer wants.
00:36:55:13 – 00:37:01:07
Speaker 1
You know, even on a small level, the podcast that we’re doing, this is the 10th episode, this turn right. This is the 10th episode.
00:37:01:12 – 00:37:02:10
Speaker 3
They said it wouldn’t last.
00:37:02:10 – 00:37:16:05
Speaker 1
They said it would never. But we put out. So Bobby will produce the entire episode. It’s typically 40 to 45 minutes, but then he produces clips from talking points and we see more engagement and views on those clips.
00:37:16:13 – 00:37:19:10
Speaker 1
Then. Then we get on a full length episode period.
00:37:19:10 – 00:37:21:12
Speaker 3
No chance. We’re interesting for 45 minutes.
00:37:22:00 – 00:37:23:02
Speaker 2
That’s a long time. The two and.
00:37:23:02 – 00:37:24:15
Speaker 3
A half minutes. Yes. Yeah.
00:37:25:17 – 00:37:37:03
Speaker 1
So there’s something there. I mean, the formula is working for, you know, us on a smaller level, but on a bigger level. Some of these shows that if they can break it down and make it work and Super Bowl and and quick and fun and it’s.
00:37:37:06 – 00:37:48:21
Speaker 2
People want to see the the the kind of behind the scenes thing. Right. That’s what we do. We were just talking about like racing stuff earlier. So we’re down to Martinsville two weeks ago, guys filming a new like NASCAR slash hunting show.
00:37:48:21 – 00:37:59:21
Speaker 2
Right. It’s going to be cool. It’ll it’ll be more a lifestyle piece. That said, I like when I’m there, I’m like, hey, man, I just want all the behind the scenes stuff that that people don’t see. And he’s like, Do you think people actually care about that?
00:37:59:21 – 00:38:03:18
Speaker 2
I’m like, That’s all they care about. Like they see the other stuff.
00:38:03:18 – 00:38:12:09
Speaker 3
Often access is king, man. People want access. They just want to see how the other half lives shot. Don’t see them.
00:38:12:09 – 00:38:18:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. Shawn and I are fans of a show on YouTube called Hot Ones. That’s just blown. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of it. They they.
00:38:18:07 – 00:38:18:19
Speaker 3
Listen.
00:38:18:21 – 00:38:25:22
Speaker 1
You do. You do have to check it out. It is entertaining. And basically they eat hot chicken wings and they get progressively hotter.
00:38:25:23 – 00:38:26:03
Speaker 2
Okay.
00:38:26:17 – 00:38:31:20
Speaker 1
I’m answer question. And there’s also a comedian I love. The Auvergne was on there and his episode was Yeah.
00:38:31:21 – 00:38:32:12
Speaker 2
Larry Yeah.
00:38:32:16 – 00:38:46:10
Speaker 1
He did a behind the he on his YouTube channel did backstage getting makeup done the whole behind the scenes of the episode. Yeah. And it was so, it was so much fun to watch because it gave you a different side of what you’re normally used to seeing.
00:38:46:14 – 00:38:48:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. So, you know.
00:38:48:00 – 00:38:49:00
Speaker 2
It drew you in and.
00:38:49:13 – 00:38:50:10
Speaker 1
100%.
00:38:50:12 – 00:38:51:06
Speaker 2
Of the puzzle.
00:38:51:06 – 00:38:54:20
Speaker 1
And what he’s saying access is is really it’s so important that understand.
00:38:54:23 – 00:39:05:21
Speaker 2
Stuff everybody gets the stuff that’s open to the public, right? Everybody gets to see that. They get to engage with it, that they get to be part of it. You know, I get that. It’s a stuff that and these guys take it for granted, right?
00:39:05:21 – 00:39:15:06
Speaker 2
Because they are living the behind the scenes. They are living the other half. That’s what needs to be pulled out more. I mean, people love that stuff. Like some of the stuff at even like the 88 show and stuff.
00:39:15:08 – 00:39:23:01
Speaker 2
Not everybody gets to go in the 88 stuff. So when you go out there and you show a clip like, Hey, there’s this new Bo or these new brought out, it’s the people were all about that because guess what?
00:39:23:06 – 00:39:24:08
Speaker 2
They don’t get to see that.
00:39:24:13 – 00:39:41:07
Speaker 1
Right. That dawned on me about two years ago when I because I, I’m just used to having access to 88. Yeah. So I’m there and I’m walking around, I’m telling you, do my thing and then you see I get on Facebook or Instagram and I’m like, How many more product reviews do I have to see from?
00:39:41:07 – 00:39:50:16
Speaker 1
I saw all of this already, but they’re just get eaten up because a majority of the nobody’s seen it. Yeah. So I get what you mean when you say, you know, guys, just take your take it for granted.
00:39:50:16 – 00:39:51:21
Speaker 1
And I’ve seen it firsthand.
00:39:51:21 – 00:40:03:13
Speaker 3
I think the other lesson of that is that people realize then it’s like, oh, I can do that. Yeah. Wait a minute. This you know, if you take an actress or an actor, take all their makeup off, do you know how they show up or this how they get out of bed?
00:40:03:17 – 00:40:04:09
Speaker 2
No, I do that.
00:40:04:15 – 00:40:13:23
Speaker 3
Well, hell, yeah, I can do that. I understand that. So I wanted to ask you about being in the honey industry just in general. Yeah, I’m a big. Make your passion, your paycheck guy.
00:40:13:23 – 00:40:14:13
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
00:40:14:22 – 00:40:19:00
Speaker 3
I think it’s the greatest blessing any of us can have in life is to get up every day and go do something.
00:40:19:00 – 00:40:20:04
Speaker 2
That you’re not down my mind.
00:40:20:17 – 00:40:24:04
Speaker 3
Did that guide you? I, in the industry drove.
00:40:24:04 – 00:40:36:20
Speaker 2
Everything for me. Yeah, I mean, I started it. I started as a wildlife biologist. Right. So I went to school at Penn State. Mississippi State got my masters in wildlife. Right. Ultimately. And my professors would call me stubborn, like I only wanted to work with the ear.
00:40:36:22 – 00:40:51:21
Speaker 2
That’s what I cared about. I was a deer hunter. So when I and you start to look at what’s available in the market to have a deer job. Very much, you know? You know, and to be honest, much like on the corporate side and maybe maybe there’s a pattern forming with me here.
00:40:52:01 – 00:41:12:21
Speaker 2
I wasn’t cut out for the state job either. So so I went into the private industry and I consulted on properties for about five years and managed, I don’t know, 30 or 35,000 acres and traveled a lot, loved it, but ultimately wasn’t dependable like it was very unpredictable.
00:41:13:06 – 00:41:25:05
Speaker 2
Had certain clients that were good annual retainers, I’d lot of one and dones. It was just constantly I felt like I was trying to catch up, you know, on it. But I had to be in this industry because this is what I live to do.
00:41:25:13 – 00:41:39:18
Speaker 2
And so when the Cabello’s thing came up, that tied me in, that got me into the marketing side of it, because ultimately we were producing a ton of content that we put on YouTube, and you would think for Cabello’s you’d put that on YouTube and like out man worked like couple hundred thousand people see that, yet a
00:41:39:18 – 00:41:55:03
Speaker 2
couple hundred people see it. You know, there still has to be a marketing aspect behind that. And so, you know, when that kind of opened up, I had I’d been in the industry before I did a program when I was in school called Buck Score.
00:41:55:22 – 00:42:11:02
Speaker 2
They still owned. But it it I got thrown into the fire very quickly. I was the, quote, general manager. There was nobody else. It was me. And so to manage and run a business and I was 24, I think, trial by fire.
00:42:11:03 – 00:42:26:09
Speaker 2
Right. But it was the best learning experience I’ve ever had in my life to this day. Makes me why I can run stone run media the way I am. But I think that truly, I couldn’t imagine waking up and not going to work and something in this industry.
00:42:26:09 – 00:42:46:00
Speaker 2
And it doesn’t have to be this industry for people. It could be any industry. But I couldn’t imagine waking up and not being passionate about what you do. And I’ll you know, I don’t want to say, you know, egotistically, since I got out of college, I’ve never woken up and said I don’t want to go to work
00:42:46:06 – 00:42:57:03
Speaker 2
in any of my jobs because I’ve always been in this in some way in this field and I am the end consumer. Do I get to hunt and fish as much as I did when I wasn’t in this industry?
00:42:57:08 – 00:42:59:21
Speaker 2
Hell, no. I’m like, that’s that’s my busy job.
00:42:59:21 – 00:43:02:10
Speaker 1
We’ve said that we are busy sometimes.
00:43:02:11 – 00:43:08:02
Speaker 2
But do I get up and I get to be in it and live it and breathe it? Absolutely.
00:43:08:07 – 00:43:22:15
Speaker 1
You would you had mentioned working in corporate America, in the hunting industry, in I think you may have just answered this, but if you really think about it on a daily basis, did you ever have a moment where you’re like, man, this industry isn’t what I thought it was?
00:43:22:15 – 00:43:34:09
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I still have that moment. I mean, there’s things that I wish. There’s only things that I wish I didn’t see from where my position is because it it it turned my my head in a way that I didn’t want.
00:43:34:17 – 00:43:44:20
Speaker 2
Right. There’s things that I see that I’m like, well, they know they have to love going out and filming these hunts every day. And then I hear that it’s like, Yeah, we make a TV show cover because we’re entertainers, not because we like to hunt.
00:43:44:20 – 00:44:01:01
Speaker 2
And I’m like, What? Like, if I ever lost that feeling, then I’d fall apart. But. But to be honest, you hear it in corporate. Wasn’t that it was just, you know, you got into a position where, you know, I like to consider myself a creative person.
00:44:01:01 – 00:44:12:16
Speaker 2
And at least, you know, I’m not saying I’m always right, but let’s think outside the box. Let’s get creative here. And it was for people telling me why I couldn’t do it. And I get that that’s the process of the business process.
00:44:12:16 – 00:44:28:12
Speaker 2
And most businesses just couldn’t fit that for me. And so, yeah, I mean, there is there is days that, you know, I’ve looked at it and said, you know, why am I in this industry? You know, why don’t I go outside of that niche and then probably just talk about I don’t know if I’d wake up and
00:44:28:12 – 00:44:30:03
Speaker 2
feel the same right now.
00:44:30:05 – 00:44:31:16
Speaker 1
And what’s next for Stone Road Media?
00:44:32:08 – 00:44:45:18
Speaker 2
I don’t know, man. We’re going to keep going. We’ve got a new office, so we’re migrating to the new office, hopefully here in the next week or two. I mean, I’ve got a great team. I will say this that, you know, in everything that I’ve done and I know you guys are the same way here, first of
00:44:45:18 – 00:44:48:20
Speaker 2
all, you got to love the people you work with, right? Because you’re around them every day.
00:44:48:22 – 00:44:49:07
Speaker 3
Like.
00:44:49:07 – 00:45:04:06
Speaker 2
Them. Well, yeah. Or on Sundays tolerate, you know. But you got to if you can surround yourself with a good team. The thing that I’ve always tried is if I can put a team around me that constantly is making me better, then we’ll all be successful.
00:45:04:06 – 00:45:22:10
Speaker 2
And I’ve been in companies that are run by quote unquote fear, essentially, and it’s miserable and it is just miserable. And so for us, for Stone Road, I mean, our goal is to continue to kind of debunk some of the people out there that I think are essentially doing companies and manufacturers and injustice and saying, yeah, yeah
00:45:22:11 – 00:45:33:06
Speaker 2
, we’ll do this, will do this. And it’s no, that doesn’t even work. You know, you don’t even understand the hunting and outdoor language. How are you going to market to the consumer? And so I’m not saying you can’t market.
00:45:33:06 – 00:45:35:14
Speaker 2
You just it’s a different beast in this industry.
00:45:35:14 – 00:45:41:03
Speaker 3
Well, exactly. And that’s because of the what we’ve already talked about, social media. If you’re not authentic, sincere, organic, the.
00:45:41:03 – 00:45:41:13
Speaker 2
Review.
00:45:41:13 – 00:45:45:20
Speaker 3
Of it shows. It shows. Ultimately know you’re going to lose 100%.
00:45:45:21 – 00:45:47:01
Speaker 1
Working people find you as.
00:45:47:23 – 00:45:55:15
Speaker 2
W that stoner American pretty easy. It’s located south of Pittsburgh, but obviously here I am, an Indiana man. Moving and shaking. Awesome.
00:45:55:15 – 00:46:01:15
Speaker 3
Cool, man. You want a quick tribute to hot one since you brought it up? Yeah. So far, podcasts. Up ten podcasts then.
00:46:02:00 – 00:46:02:12
Speaker 1
There you go.
00:46:02:21 – 00:46:04:19
Speaker 3
Can’t promise there will be an 11.
00:46:04:21 – 00:46:06:11
Speaker 1
Jeremy, thanks for coming in. That was awesome.
00:46:07:09 – 00:46:28:05
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
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Speaker 1
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Speaker 1
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00:47:23:14 – 00:47:32:22
Speaker 3
Guys, thanks for watching. Our podcast might not be the best podcast you’ve seen, but I know it’s not the worst and it will get better if you want to take the ride with us, man. Subscribe to this. Like us.
00:47:33:04 – 00:47:36:15
Speaker 3
Share us. Or just tell somebody. Take it easy and safe.
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