Transcription

00:00:10:04 – 00:00:23:11
Speaker 1
Okay. Thanks for joining us today on the American Hunting Podcast. My name is Sean along with my my pal Joel here. And we have a special guest today, Mr. Steve Pinker from Tinkers, Taxidermy and Wildlife Art in Greensburg, Indiana.

00:00:23:11 – 00:00:24:19
Speaker 1
Welcome, Steve. Thank you for being here.

00:00:24:20 – 00:00:25:14
Speaker 2
Thank you very much.

00:00:26:00 – 00:00:46:10
Speaker 1
We’ve talked this is our I always get in the habit of mentioning this is like our 14th I think podcast. And I think sometimes taxidermy is overlooked, you know, especially in this kind of these conversations. I know. Not only is it overlooked, I think by the majority of hunters, they look at it as like, oh, I would

00:00:46:10 – 00:00:55:08
Speaker 1
never have something I would want mounted or I would be able to make it. But yeah, I know you’ve done so. I’ve seen I’ve been to your shop a couple of times and we were just talking before we started.

00:00:55:18 – 00:01:05:22
Speaker 1
We actually met on a lease that I had and you were literally just driving by in your pickup truck one day? Yes. And stopped. And, you know, we visited like friendly people do in the country.

00:01:06:02 – 00:01:07:01
Speaker 3
Well, like ten years ago.

00:01:07:02 – 00:01:08:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, it’s.

00:01:08:10 – 00:01:09:08
Speaker 2
It’s been a while ago.

00:01:09:17 – 00:01:21:01
Speaker 1
Yes. Yeah. He was you know, Steve was just nice enough to stop, say, hey, guys. And, you know, that’s something on all of our leases. Frankly, I like to talk to the locals. I prefer to meet them, you know, the ones next door.

00:01:21:01 – 00:01:29:11
Speaker 1
But any other. Yeah. Hey, if you see my truck down here three or four times and all of a sudden you see a different truck, or it’s nice to have somebody, you know, some eyes on it. So sure.

00:01:29:12 – 00:01:35:22
Speaker 1
I appreciate that. We have we talk for a second. He said, yes, I have a taxidermy shop up. What do you have half a mile from?

00:01:36:00 – 00:01:36:13
Speaker 2
Yes, not very.

00:01:36:13 – 00:01:44:15
Speaker 1
Far at all. Yes. And then I introduced a friend of ours to Steve, and I think he’s been taking some pretty cool stuff, too. You absolutely killed big stuff.

00:01:44:15 – 00:01:45:21
Speaker 2
Yes. So he keeps us.

00:01:45:23 – 00:01:58:08
Speaker 1
He keeps us busy. Nice. Well, good deal. Well, Steve. Yeah? Why don’t we start this way? Why don’t you just tell us about your story? Taxidermy is not something that I think people get into. Right? Some a lot of thoughts.

00:01:58:08 – 00:01:59:23
Speaker 1
Some. Yeah. Well, how did you go into it?

00:02:00:04 – 00:02:22:14
Speaker 2
I, uh, I got into taxidermy when I was about eight years old. I grew up on a family farm down Decatur County, Indiana, around Greensburg. And I had seen a mount that someone had and something hit me. And I just felt like taxidermy is something I had to learn even at that age.

00:02:22:20 – 00:02:23:09
Speaker 1
No kidding.

00:02:23:16 – 00:02:44:07
Speaker 2
Um, I had bought a course in those days. You didn’t have the internet or anything like that, so they had a course in the back of it was like for a fishing game or outdoor life for $15. I didn’t have 15 hours, so I saved my money and bought the course and that’s how my career in taxidermy

00:02:44:07 – 00:02:44:16
Speaker 2
started.

00:02:45:12 – 00:02:47:04
Speaker 3
Do you remember what it was that you saw?

00:02:48:01 – 00:02:49:07
Speaker 2
I think it was a red fox man.

00:02:49:07 – 00:02:54:08
Speaker 3
Red fox, yes. If it would have been a bad mouth, would you felt the same way or was it because it was good?

00:02:55:11 – 00:03:08:05
Speaker 2
Possibly. Um, it honestly, I something came over me and I thought this is something I had to learn. And to this day, I feel I was put here to be a taxidermist. I really do.

00:03:08:05 – 00:03:11:15
Speaker 1
So when did you know it was going to be your profession, your path in life?

00:03:11:15 – 00:03:27:05
Speaker 2
Well, after I started practicing through like junior high and high school and so forth, it was always my dream to be my profession. But I didn’t know of anyone in Indiana or around where we was at that can make a living at it.

00:03:27:18 – 00:03:33:22
Speaker 2
So, you know, being an 18 year old kid, how do you make a living at something like this when you don’t see anyone in front of you doing it?

00:03:34:01 – 00:03:34:09
Speaker 1
Right.

00:03:35:20 – 00:03:43:16
Speaker 2
So I had other jobs, you know, where I would work through the summer and stuff. Then I would be laid off in the winter and I would practice my taxidermy through the winter and spring.

00:03:43:21 – 00:03:46:05
Speaker 1
It’s a good time to be leave off taxidermists in the winter.

00:03:46:05 – 00:04:02:03
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Absolutely. So then also, you know, after work picked up, okay, how how do I get enough work to keep me busy year round? Because in Indiana, you know, we have deer, we have turkeys and things like that.

00:04:02:16 – 00:04:12:06
Speaker 2
So getting more big game from out west and then also down the the African market because their seasons are just the opposite of ours.

00:04:12:13 – 00:04:17:14
Speaker 1
How do you get game from out west? Are there just Indiana guys that went out and hunted out west and brought theirs back?

00:04:17:19 – 00:04:29:12
Speaker 2
Mainly, yeah, we get we get whether it’s elk, mule deer, antelope, mountain lions from all over out west. We get stuff from from Alaska. British Columbia.

00:04:29:14 – 00:04:33:05
Speaker 1
Really. Yeah, but it’s mostly Indiana guys. Mostly they go in and bring.

00:04:33:07 – 00:04:39:19
Speaker 2
Mostly some of the stuff is shipped in salt dried. We when we get something in from out there, it’s the skin is salt dried.

00:04:40:00 – 00:04:40:08
Speaker 1
Okay.

00:04:40:10 – 00:04:44:17
Speaker 2
So all we get is like antlers or horns and then the skins completely salt dried.

00:04:45:11 – 00:05:04:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. Interesting. Yes. Yeah, I’ve noticed that, you know, in the industry or well leasing is a good example, but there’s everything seems to be going with YouTube in particular. Mm hmm. DIY, do it yourself. Do it yourself. And I’ll, you know, full disclosure.

00:05:05:03 – 00:05:17:06
Speaker 1
15, 20 years ago, I looked up. I thought taxidermy be a great job. I was a fireman. Ever. All firemen have part time jobs. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. 90% of em are cutting grass. Don’t want to cut grass.

00:05:17:06 – 00:05:27:20
Speaker 1
Bad allergies. Say, cutting grass. So I thought taxidermy would be ideal. Sure. And then, like, probably most, I buy the. There was the VHS cassette of the time, and it was a squirrel.

00:05:27:20 – 00:05:28:07
Speaker 2
Yes.

00:05:28:09 – 00:05:35:19
Speaker 1
Yes. And, you know, I watched the video. I’m like, not really. Don’t have a dead squirrel ran amok on grass.

00:05:35:20 – 00:05:39:01
Speaker 3
How quickly how quickly do you realize there’s a skills gap there? You’re like, oh.

00:05:39:02 – 00:05:58:10
Speaker 1
This is well, this is how I took my first deer that I wanted mounted to a guy in his garage. How many, you know? Sure. Got to be 80% of the industry. And he’s like, I’m too busy, but if you want to do it right there, I’ll show you as I do these.

00:05:58:10 – 00:06:10:05
Speaker 1
How to do it. Okay, fine. And then you’re in. I was really into it for the first couple nights, and then it’s just every little pen, every little thing. And I’m just like, let’s just get this thing done.

00:06:10:05 – 00:06:23:01
Speaker 1
And then I’ve never tried it since. And that’s what a great term there is a talent gap or an ability gap there. And I think a lot of it’s mental. Frankly, I don’t have the mental capacity to sit so long to make sure that it’s perfect.

00:06:23:04 – 00:06:24:00
Speaker 1
That sound familiar?

00:06:24:02 – 00:06:29:12
Speaker 2
It does. I definitely have the patience for taxidermy, but there’s other things in life that I do not have patience for.

00:06:30:10 – 00:06:47:04
Speaker 1
So do you do you feel anxiety about handling somebody? You know, this is this is your let’s you know, you do this every day, but this is this person’s once in a lifetime bow hunt for the guy, you know, and they trust you with that.

00:06:47:11 – 00:06:49:02
Speaker 1
That’s got to you. I would feel like.

00:06:49:09 – 00:06:50:15
Speaker 3
It’s definitely a responsible responsibility.

00:06:51:07 – 00:06:52:05
Speaker 2
That’s what drives me.

00:06:52:11 – 00:06:52:16
Speaker 1
Is.

00:06:52:16 – 00:07:08:22
Speaker 2
I thrive on that. If we get something in that I have never laid my hands on in my entire life, I will research that animal completely and that’s what drives me. I can’t wait to get something that I’ve never laid my hands on.

00:07:09:00 – 00:07:09:08
Speaker 2
Really.

00:07:09:11 – 00:07:25:23
Speaker 3
So. So there are, with something like that, an animal you’ve never, like you said, had your hands on before. There are have to be fundamentals, I would assume, in taxidermy that apply across the board. Absolutely. And then you take those and then you, you know, build on the style of whatever animal that you deal with at that

00:07:25:23 – 00:07:26:06
Speaker 3
time.

00:07:26:07 – 00:07:27:13
Speaker 2
Yes, absolutely.

00:07:27:13 – 00:07:28:02
Speaker 3
Interesting.

00:07:28:02 – 00:07:28:13
Speaker 2
Yes.

00:07:29:02 – 00:07:41:11
Speaker 1
It is interesting. Yeah. Is there anything I can do with my animal that that you can’t fix? Um, not just you, but most taxidermist is. I mean, I would love for my listening to go to kink or taxidermy.

00:07:41:11 – 00:07:49:22
Speaker 1
I get that. But if you don’t, you know I can’t. If my knife slips when I’m field dressing a deer, I’m like, Oh, I just ruined the whole mouth. That’s not necessarily true, is it?

00:07:49:23 – 00:08:06:02
Speaker 2
No. No. Knife cuts and things like that absolutely can be repaired to an extent. Um, things that can’t be repaired, let’s say, if, if someone’s dragging their deer out and they wear the, the hair down on the shoulders, things like that.

00:08:06:02 – 00:08:08:10
Speaker 1
The deer. I have a thing in my office. Yeah, we do.

00:08:08:16 – 00:08:26:14
Speaker 2
Sometimes you’ll burn the tips off and the hair won’t come completely off. But you wear the tips off. So even myself, one of those little blue tarps wrapped the Darian or the, you know, an actual little drag or something you can lay the different things like that can’t be repaired.

00:08:26:16 – 00:08:28:17
Speaker 1
Actually makes it easier to drag to. Absolutely.

00:08:28:20 – 00:08:29:19
Speaker 2
There’s no resistance.

00:08:29:19 – 00:08:39:16
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s good information. Yeah. Now kind of back to the DIY guys and YouTube. I’ve, I fixed my dryer, my washer I fix so much stuff.

00:08:39:16 – 00:08:42:14
Speaker 3
It’s I just told you about my mower last night on mower.

00:08:42:14 – 00:08:54:09
Speaker 1
So you know, there’s so much information available. Has that has that hurt your business or do you are you busy fixing YouTube attempts at taxidermy? No.

00:08:54:17 – 00:09:16:20
Speaker 2
It really hasn’t affected our business. I’m a firm believer. Good taxidermy is art work and guys will find a I’ll call it a style in taxidermy, and then they will continue to come to you. But there are many, many good taxonomies out there.

00:09:19:21 – 00:09:44:08
Speaker 2
Taxidermy is all about being creative. And also when we get into life size pieces and even game heads, not just buying a mannequin from a supplier and mounting it up for the customer. It’s doing, you know, resizing it to fit the skin, changing the pose, doing your own touch to it towards a custom piece.

00:09:45:14 – 00:09:52:23
Speaker 2
And that’s where we, I feel, have been very successful as far as doing that in taxidermy.

00:09:54:01 – 00:10:08:22
Speaker 1
So here’s this is the most frustrating thing I think most guys would would admit a year, you know, I bring my degree and it’s well, you get back in a year. Yeah people just want and I think that’s what would drive them to the YouTube thing is like, wait a minute, maybe I could do this myself.

00:10:08:23 – 00:10:19:01
Speaker 3
Well, yeah, let me let me back up a little bit on that because that’s kind of part of my question is, let’s say I’m in a position this fall where I can get my first ear mounted. Mm hmm.

00:10:19:04 – 00:10:29:20
Speaker 3
What do I. What do I expect when I walk through the doors of a taxidermy shop? What am I. What questions should I be asking? What should I information should I be giving you? What’s that process look like?

00:10:30:04 – 00:10:32:22
Speaker 3
And then on the back end, you know, how long does it take?

00:10:33:00 – 00:10:35:14
Speaker 1
Okay, whitetail specific. Sure. Yeah. Okay.

00:10:35:20 – 00:10:49:16
Speaker 2
Whitetail deer. We will have out by the following season because there are so many whitetail hunters. We will have them out by the following season. When we get into the larger stuff, the custom stuff, then yes, we are over a year.

00:10:49:16 – 00:11:11:01
Speaker 2
We can go into two years on some stuff on on life size lions and different things like that with complete habitat when you’re going to attack stormy sharp for instance with a deer prior to going, I would go there before season, check out their work, ask them, you know, basically the turnaround time on it.

00:11:13:14 – 00:11:31:20
Speaker 2
Also, check out some reference so you can kind of see the longevity of some of the mounts that that’s where I would start and definitely cost also. Sure. But a few hundred dollars in taxidermy can go a long ways as far as longevity.

00:11:32:02 – 00:11:39:18
Speaker 3
Yeah. So that’s an interesting point. I never thought about the longevity of of a piece that you do is should be a factor that considers.

00:11:39:18 – 00:11:49:14
Speaker 1
Absolute like what kind of, what are we talking about? What’s it so it looks good on day one and then maybe three years down the road, not so good. What would we look at? Are we looking at that?

00:11:49:14 – 00:11:53:12
Speaker 1
I’ll bet it’s I bet you pick it out easily. And where I just glance at it like it looks fine to me.

00:11:53:20 – 00:12:11:07
Speaker 2
If if it is tanned properly and it is kept in a climate control, you know, so you have heat in the winter, you have air conditioning in the summer. I have pieces had been mounted for 20 years. And the only difference is the dust obviously is hard on everything.

00:12:11:15 – 00:12:17:12
Speaker 2
But if you can clean them several times a year, there should be no cracking. There should be nothing like that.

00:12:17:18 – 00:12:20:13
Speaker 3
What’s the best way? How do you go about pulling them out?

00:12:21:02 – 00:12:39:19
Speaker 2
Feather duster walks. Good to go with the hair Windex on a Q-Tip like for the eyes nose and things like that. Definitely keep all your mounts out of sunlight, even sunlight coming through a window. So basically a trophy room with no windows is the best.

00:12:40:19 – 00:12:45:10
Speaker 2
Because sunlight will absolutely destroy anything. Is there a sunlight?

00:12:45:15 – 00:12:57:11
Speaker 1
Yes. I got mine in my basement. I should be good. Yes. But at the same time, that’s a good thought. Yes, I did notice. I think it was on the deer that I’ve mounted, though. You can start to see a little of the.

00:12:57:12 – 00:13:01:14
Speaker 1
Of the mold. Okay. Yeah. Two calls of the mannequin.

00:13:01:17 – 00:13:02:12
Speaker 2
Yeah, the mannequin.

00:13:03:11 – 00:13:11:21
Speaker 1
Through the teeth. Yeah. Is that just the skin just kind of shrink back? Yeah. Is that because it wasn’t pinned correctly or wasn’t? Obviously. What mounted?

00:13:12:12 – 00:13:21:00
Speaker 2
Probably the tanning. Tanning. A good tan and a good adhesive to hold the the it’s leather once it stays right to hold it in place.

00:13:21:13 – 00:13:25:03
Speaker 1
Okay. Yeah. So then so that’s a good question to ask somebody. How do you tan it?

00:13:25:04 – 00:13:25:15
Speaker 2
Yes.

00:13:26:09 – 00:13:27:21
Speaker 1
What do we want and what do I not want?

00:13:28:08 – 00:13:44:04
Speaker 2
You would want any. Today there are many good tans out there versus ten years ago. Commercial tans. The the tanneries are great. And they also have some tans that guys can do in small shops and stuff. I mean, there really are some great tans.

00:13:44:06 – 00:13:44:17
Speaker 1
Okay.

00:13:45:01 – 00:13:57:11
Speaker 2
No dry preservatives. I definitely wouldn’t recommend dry preservatives. That’s where you will get a tremendous amount of shrinkage. You will get things pulling and things like that, which I don’t know, hardly any shops that would use something like that anymore.

00:13:58:11 – 00:14:07:05
Speaker 1
But if you’re you’re asking around and again, that’s a little know I’ll do that for you. I do it on my spare time. And we’ve got a good friend of ours that does. And I think his work is really good.

00:14:07:09 – 00:14:21:06
Speaker 3
Right. He hasn’t had. Yeah, he hasn’t hanging around and I look at it and go yeah. For what he would charge basically for material. Sure. I’m like, that would be a great first one for me, only because, you know, I don’t have one yet and I want to start somewhere.

00:14:21:07 – 00:14:21:16
Speaker 3
Sure.

00:14:21:16 – 00:14:23:12
Speaker 1
So even that one last year.

00:14:24:03 – 00:14:25:03
Speaker 3
Now it’s a European though.

00:14:26:10 – 00:14:29:15
Speaker 1
He got a couple of questions. Last year, two years ago. It was two years.

00:14:29:15 – 00:14:30:04
Speaker 3
Two years ago.

00:14:30:07 – 00:14:44:11
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah, well, good. So, okay, now I’m going to ask him, how do you tan this? You know? What else do I need to provide for them? You know, I know some of this stuff and I’m trying to, you know, actually a little bit of leading question.

00:14:44:11 – 00:14:55:11
Speaker 1
But I know there’s some measurements. There’s a way to to to cut, my dear, to to remove the hide. And then temperature wise, you shed some of the stuff out west comes to you salted.

00:14:55:16 – 00:15:02:14
Speaker 2
Yes. It’s already skinned out in it’s salt right that way. A white excuse me. A white t. I would not.

00:15:02:15 – 00:15:03:01
Speaker 1
Okay.

00:15:03:19 – 00:15:12:23
Speaker 2
What I if you can’t get it to the taxidermist right away, as long as it’s just the head, go ahead and freeze it. You can freeze it if you can’t get to us right away.

00:15:13:07 – 00:15:15:06
Speaker 1
The whole. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

00:15:16:13 – 00:15:32:11
Speaker 2
The only reason we get stuff salt dried from out west. It’s such a long ways to travel. Sure. With things like that. That white tailed deer. If you can’t get it to a text right away, I would freeze.

00:15:32:11 – 00:15:44:20
Speaker 2
Freeze. It is what I would do. And another thing with freezing it, um, anymore, a lot of these deer are loaded with ticks and freezing it for at least a week. Will kill the ticks is what it’ll do.

00:15:45:23 – 00:15:55:07
Speaker 1
Yes. Well, yeah, we might have to. Before you leave, let’s all get in that conversation. Yes, it is. It might be as a bigger problem than I think a lot of people think it.

00:15:56:01 – 00:15:57:18
Speaker 2
I will guarantee it. It is. All right.

00:15:57:18 – 00:16:07:06
Speaker 1
We’ll circle back to that. Yes. So if somebody is listening and they are new, I measure the circumference of the neck that you’ve had to the tracks.

00:16:07:10 – 00:16:23:00
Speaker 2
The taxidermist will do that. Okay. Okay. The measurements I like to take are on the carcass. I don’t take many measurements over the hair, because over the hair is not an accurate measurement. So once I skin the cape off of the head, I will take measurements on the carcass.

00:16:23:03 – 00:16:25:20
Speaker 1
And how much of that? So I do to bring you back.

00:16:26:03 – 00:16:28:23
Speaker 2
About 8 to 10 inches of neck.

00:16:29:02 – 00:16:29:11
Speaker 1
Okay.

00:16:29:23 – 00:16:42:01
Speaker 2
And then I will take the measurements off of that, and then I will also take them off the head. And then I will also take them from like the tip of the nose to the antlers and the tip of the nose to the antler or to the main bean tips.

00:16:42:01 – 00:16:43:23
Speaker 2
So I get the antlers back on properly.

00:16:44:03 – 00:16:46:14
Speaker 1
And that’s just so you can more closely replicate.

00:16:47:01 – 00:16:48:19
Speaker 2
The way that exactly how it was. Yes.

00:16:48:21 – 00:16:55:00
Speaker 1
Can you or most manikins come? I mean, you can custom order these mannequins like that. Or do you modify the mannequin when you get it?

00:16:55:09 – 00:17:13:02
Speaker 2
Most of the white tail, we can buy what we need because there are so many white tail mannequins on the market today. There’s literally thousands of white tail mannequins compared to some species we work with where there might be only one or two mannequins or there may be no mannequins.

00:17:13:13 – 00:17:22:23
Speaker 2
So then we have to build them. But whitetail hunting is so popular across the entire nation, that’s the reason they have made so many mannequins for me.

00:17:22:23 – 00:17:35:16
Speaker 1
I think some guys probably a little frustrated of attention. The white tails get, you know, especially waterfowl guys, you know. But the fact is, the white tails just drive this industry.

00:17:35:18 – 00:17:36:17
Speaker 2
It does. It really.

00:17:36:17 – 00:17:39:08
Speaker 1
Does. You know, that’s where the dollars are is where the hunters are.

00:17:39:09 – 00:17:39:19
Speaker 2
That’s right.

00:17:39:23 – 00:17:48:22
Speaker 1
It’s just going to go that way. We try to do our best to really include waterfowl in particular, because we’ve both trying to get into it a little. Sure. It’s fun.

00:17:48:22 – 00:17:49:12
Speaker 3
It’s fun.

00:17:49:13 – 00:17:52:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. Do you do you do much waterfowl? You do birds?

00:17:52:05 – 00:17:52:20
Speaker 2
I used.

00:17:52:20 – 00:17:53:01
Speaker 1
To.

00:17:53:05 – 00:17:54:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, I don’t anymore.

00:17:55:09 – 00:17:56:19
Speaker 1
You turn it away because you just.

00:17:56:19 – 00:18:08:15
Speaker 2
I do. We. We have so many other projects going on. Something had to give. So fish and and waterfowl and so forth had to give. So who knows? Someday I might get back into it.

00:18:08:15 – 00:18:18:11
Speaker 1
Makes sense. Okay, so let’s go back to the two years thing. Sometimes mounting a line doesn’t take two years. No, but it’s got to wait in line. Is that pretty much what it is just for you to get to it.

00:18:18:17 – 00:18:33:08
Speaker 2
Designing the whole piece. So in other words, I will get with the client. We will check the space in his home or in or in his game room where he wants to put it exactly where it wants to go.

00:18:33:09 – 00:18:48:01
Speaker 2
Ceiling height, door size, everything. And then we will completely design a custom piece is what we will do. So whether. Yeah, so whether we’re building rocks for custom poses, the whole nine yards.

00:18:48:03 – 00:19:01:21
Speaker 3
I feel like the two year thing could be frustrating, but at the same time, if you’re getting a 100% custom piece. Yeah. And there is a two year wait anyways, you know, you’re dealing with a guy who’s legitimate people want his work done.

00:19:02:10 – 00:19:05:04
Speaker 3
So I think the payoff is probably worth it.

00:19:05:13 – 00:19:09:06
Speaker 2
And we don’t do to him the same. It’s going to be it’s going to.

00:19:09:06 – 00:19:10:01
Speaker 1
Be like that a lot.

00:19:10:02 – 00:19:17:22
Speaker 2
That’s going to be a one of a kind piece. We will do some similar, but we are going to change something to where your piece is one of a kind.

00:19:18:16 – 00:19:30:02
Speaker 1
Tell me a little about your staff. It’s I mean, you’re doing the design work and going to people’s homes. And, you know, we had ten, 11 people that I wish know, just you.

00:19:30:02 – 00:19:31:03
Speaker 2
Myself and my wife.

00:19:31:03 – 00:19:31:19
Speaker 1
Yes. Okay.

00:19:32:13 – 00:19:51:07
Speaker 2
Taxidermy is a strange business. Steve and I had talked about this, too, where you can’t just hire somebody off the street to come in and do taxidermy. Taxidermy is an art. And when you have someone come in to do that, you’re changing your artwork completely.

00:19:52:05 – 00:20:08:18
Speaker 2
Yes, they can do certain things. They can, you know, sand mannequins, prep skins and things like that. It’s one of the few businesses that is like that too, where when you start bringing people in, you’ve changed the artwork is what you’ve done.

00:20:09:04 – 00:20:21:02
Speaker 1
If you look at yourself as an artist, obviously you do. I’ve seen your work. I would say as a photographer, I can understand. That makes sense. My gosh. Then then at some point you’re having to flesh the hides and.

00:20:21:08 – 00:20:25:05
Speaker 1
Or your wife is. Yeah, that’s just. That’s very.

00:20:25:05 – 00:20:26:10
Speaker 2
There are certain things we can’t.

00:20:26:16 – 00:20:27:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, yeah.

00:20:28:07 – 00:20:32:14
Speaker 2
We’re. I’m a sculptor. I’m a fabricator. I’m a painter. You name it.

00:20:32:22 – 00:20:41:05
Speaker 3
Have you ever. Have you ever, you know, played with the idea of of expanding and hiring staff and trying to dish out some of those responsibilities to to a group of people.

00:20:42:21 – 00:20:47:00
Speaker 2
Some of it. Yes, some. Some of the duties. Yes, yes. Some of the.

00:20:47:00 – 00:20:48:17
Speaker 3
Minor have to take on yourself.

00:20:48:21 – 00:21:00:11
Speaker 2
Some of the minor things. And we’ve had some people in the shop that helped out and they did a fine job. They really did. It’s a fine line on what all you can let them do. It really is.

00:21:00:12 – 00:21:00:18
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:21:01:14 – 00:21:13:03
Speaker 1
It ties back into feeling the weight of the burdens you’re taking on somebody whose pride and joy. Yeah. You come up with a grizzly or a, you know, ¬£450 black bear. Yes. And you get some, you know, quote unquote, kid from high school and and even.

00:21:13:03 – 00:21:16:11
Speaker 1
Yeah, that’s I no. Oh, boy. No, that’s a tough.

00:21:16:15 – 00:21:29:14
Speaker 3
I even get it on a smaller level at work. It’s there are certain things where I’m just like, I’d rather just do it because then I know if if anything goes wrong, for whatever reason, guys, anything goes wrong, for whatever reason no one else has.

00:21:30:02 – 00:21:36:15
Speaker 3
That’s my responsibility or and, you know, no one else has to take the blame for that. So I 100% can can relate to that.

00:21:37:03 – 00:21:37:11
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:21:37:19 – 00:21:50:05
Speaker 2
Because, you know, we’ve done your life size, stone sheep life size, a desert bighorn sheep, life size, brown bears. So these guys have waited their entire life to hunt some of these things and have a huge investment in them.

00:21:50:09 – 00:21:53:18
Speaker 2
Sure, they want us. They want me working out.

00:21:53:18 – 00:22:04:18
Speaker 3
What does that what’s what is that feeling like when a guy gets like that once in a lifetime sheep hunt and you deliver that final product? What is that like for you? I can imagine what it’s like for him.

00:22:05:00 – 00:22:05:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.

00:22:05:13 – 00:22:09:07
Speaker 2
It’s like it’s the next best thing to hunting it yourself.

00:22:09:07 – 00:22:09:17
Speaker 3
Really?

00:22:09:18 – 00:22:14:08
Speaker 2
Yes. Wow. I got goose bumps right now. Oh, it is. It is.

00:22:14:14 – 00:22:15:09
Speaker 3
As cool, isn’t.

00:22:15:09 – 00:22:18:12
Speaker 1
It? Yeah, it’s fantastic. It’s a way to be involved.

00:22:18:14 – 00:22:19:06
Speaker 2
Exactly.

00:22:19:07 – 00:22:28:18
Speaker 1
You know, most of us during hunting season, maybe we hang some stands. We’re going to go to that later today. Yeah, but it’s a way to be. Yes. Solved when you’re not really involved.

00:22:28:18 – 00:22:44:20
Speaker 3
Yeah. That use the sheep as the example right. When anyone goes to that guy’s game room in his house and they see they’re going to say That’s awesome, that looks great. He he’s never your end product is what is going to live on the rest.

00:22:44:20 – 00:22:56:02
Speaker 3
Exactly of the time. Yes. And someone will be like, man who did that? He’s going to be like, I don’t remember. Yeah. Like you’re part of that story. Yes, you’re in. You cannot be separated from it. I think that’s just so it’s a great thought.

00:22:56:04 – 00:22:58:01
Speaker 1
I said that’s a that’s a fantastic point.

00:22:58:01 – 00:23:19:13
Speaker 2
I really I had a gentleman two years ago. He went on his first sheep. He he own his own business and his entire life he sold his business and he was right. It’s late sixties, early seventies. So he never got to do much hunting his whole life because he owned his own businesses working all the time.

00:23:20:08 – 00:23:33:17
Speaker 2
And so he wanted to kill sheep. He bought a stolen sheep hunt and he went up to British Columbia. He got his stolen sheep and he said, Steve, he said he shot the sheep and he said he just broke down crying.

00:23:34:01 – 00:23:45:12
Speaker 2
He said he was so emotional. Yeah. And with him telling me all this and then me getting the job to mount it for him, I could just relate to him with what all he was going through.

00:23:46:00 – 00:23:59:00
Speaker 1
Where he can look at it every day. Absolutely. Your play your. Yeah it’s it’s I mean it’s so I hate to say it, but it’s almost more you than almost the animal, honestly. I mean it’s a lot of of Steve Pinker in that amount.

00:23:59:03 – 00:23:59:09
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:24:00:03 – 00:24:10:00
Speaker 3
It’s almost and if even something small is wrong. Yeah. You know they’re going to note that’s going to be the thing they go to every time when they they won’t be able to not see.

00:24:10:00 – 00:24:10:15
Speaker 2
Absolutely.

00:24:11:06 – 00:24:19:19
Speaker 3
I’m not trying to add any more pressure to your job, but the more I think about it, it’s a it’s a it’s a responsibility you picked. Do you have a heavy career choice here?

00:24:20:12 – 00:24:34:13
Speaker 1
But that way, I mean, I’m just oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, even big sheep, I mean, even the vet kind of stuff I’m thinking of. It’s just you and your wife and you’re telling me you’re almost, you know, you’re you’re saying I’ll get your deer done by the by the next season.

00:24:34:13 – 00:24:38:17
Speaker 1
And then some guys come in with, you know, all kinds of stuff. There’s got to be some.

00:24:38:17 – 00:24:53:12
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah, absolutely. We turn a a a lot of work away. I guess I’m later in my career where I’m starting to do more of what I want and where my passion is at. That’s the reason why I I’m not doing fish.

00:24:53:12 – 00:25:07:23
Speaker 2
I’m not doing the birds and things like that. I like customers that appreciate the hard work and and the quality that we put into it where I can really relate to them. I want that. I want that combination right there.

00:25:08:08 – 00:25:08:16
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:25:09:05 – 00:25:09:22
Speaker 2
The relationships.

00:25:09:22 – 00:25:12:18
Speaker 3
A lot of repeat customers. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would imagine.

00:25:12:18 – 00:25:13:00
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:25:13:18 – 00:25:21:17
Speaker 3
Yeah. It seems like you’re in a you’re in a market where, you know, I’m sure you can charge whatever you probably want to charge.

00:25:21:17 – 00:25:45:06
Speaker 2
Well it. We have to charge enough, obviously, to to to keep the business going. Sure. And there’s always someone that that is going to offer to do it cheaper. But. It’s the the custom work. I think that really where we have a strong following, I really do.

00:25:45:07 – 00:26:00:20
Speaker 1
Lawson Yeah. Well, you mentioned going to somebody’s house and, you know, looking at where they’re going to display it. Mm hmm. If I recall, when I was in your shop a few years ago, there was a picture there of you doing a draft.

00:26:00:22 – 00:26:07:02
Speaker 1
Mm hmm. Yeah. Can you tell me a little bit about that story, about where that person had to keep his draft and how the.

00:26:07:02 – 00:26:07:20
Speaker 3
House was there?

00:26:08:00 – 00:26:09:05
Speaker 1
I think you’re up on a ladder.

00:26:09:06 – 00:26:10:04
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yes.

00:26:10:15 – 00:26:18:23
Speaker 1
Yeah. Well, just walk us through that kind of beginning to end. Really just. How did they. I guess they just took the hide off like anything else.

00:26:19:01 – 00:26:37:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, that was. That draft was taken in Africa in oh eight by, by a lady. Her and her husband was over in Africa hunting with us. And actually, it was going to be a shoulder mount. But still, the shoulder mount was, I think, about 12 feet.

00:26:37:15 – 00:26:41:02
Speaker 1
That’s what it was. Okay. Mm hmm.

00:26:42:04 – 00:26:56:11
Speaker 2
You know, obviously when they take something like that in Africa before they hunt the giraffe. When they take it on the spot, the community comes in and they they butcher the whole thing right there. So I want to get that out there right away that nothing is wasted.

00:26:56:19 – 00:27:14:07
Speaker 2
Okay. I mean, they clean everything. The organs, they clean everything. There’s nothing wasted at all. She got the draft. We got it back from the tanner. We get all of our measurements and so forth that we needed. And then we basically just designed a piece for their their trophy room.

00:27:16:04 – 00:27:25:12
Speaker 2
We built a tree that went in behind an acacia tree with all the leaves and thorns and stuff on it. So the draft is kind of like up in the canopy of the tree where it would be feeding.

00:27:25:15 – 00:27:25:21
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:27:28:00 – 00:27:33:21
Speaker 2
And then we had to build the whole thing. So everything breaks down into smaller pieces to go through a 36 inch door. So.

00:27:35:02 – 00:27:35:06
Speaker 1
Hmm.

00:27:35:12 – 00:27:44:13
Speaker 2
Just me. So that’s the tough thing. At times when you do big pieces, they still have to go through certain sized doors. So then we just do.

00:27:44:15 – 00:27:47:20
Speaker 3
It’s like the most realistic, complex Lego. Yeah.

00:27:48:06 – 00:28:00:16
Speaker 1
That’s what I would forget, that I put eight months into doing this giraffe and get to. I can’t get into the got to go down in the basement. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Difficult. Oh, that’s, that’s interesting. Had you ever done the giraffe and have you done one sense?

00:28:01:00 – 00:28:06:01
Speaker 2
Uh, no. No, I have never had never done one. And that is the last one.

00:28:06:02 – 00:28:16:16
Speaker 3
Is that the the most interesting piece you’ve ever done? Or in your opinion, what is what’s the one you look back and go, that was that was the coolest one, the most challenging or whatever. What what’s memorable to you?

00:28:17:02 – 00:28:34:22
Speaker 2
That is a good question. That was definitely right up there. There’s I don’t know if there’s any that’ll take the lead just yet, but some of the sheep in mountain goats and things like that, brown bears. Leopard. Leopard is probably right there.

00:28:34:23 – 00:28:35:13
Speaker 3
Really cool.

00:28:35:17 – 00:28:36:01
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:28:36:14 – 00:28:37:17
Speaker 3
I want to circle back a little bit.

00:28:37:17 – 00:28:38:18
Speaker 1
Go ahead. No, no, go ahead.

00:28:38:19 – 00:28:46:22
Speaker 3
As I say, I want to circle back a little bit when you were telling your stories. You said a lady and her husband, you said we were out there hunting in Africa. Tell me a little bit about that.

00:28:47:13 – 00:29:08:10
Speaker 2
We we was over there with a group in South Africa in 2008. That’s the first time I’d went to Africa. We had taken a lot of planes game. She had taken a giraffe also. And it’s just something that since oh, wait, I have been going back almost every year with clients hunting planes game and then some of

00:29:08:10 – 00:29:11:21
Speaker 2
the dangerous game to buffalo and croc and lion leopard.

00:29:12:09 – 00:29:14:14
Speaker 3
A lot a lot different than North America does.

00:29:14:16 – 00:29:15:01
Speaker 2
Yes, it.

00:29:15:06 – 00:29:25:12
Speaker 1
Is croc in the big five. No, I didn’t think so. Yeah. What’s the big five? Just for people who are listening. Don’t know what I’m talking to for me. What’s the big five? And for Joel? So the big five or the five?

00:29:25:12 – 00:29:27:19
Speaker 1
The dangerous animals in Africa. And they are.

00:29:27:20 – 00:29:33:05
Speaker 2
The elephant, the lion, the leopard, the buffalo. And I believe it’s the hippo, I think.

00:29:33:06 – 00:29:44:18
Speaker 1
Yeah, okay. Yeah, you’re right. So, yeah, that’s the big five. Yeah. There you go. Yeah, yeah. You don’t say, have you done some crocs? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. That’s just cool stuff. Yeah, this is just one of those things.

00:29:44:18 – 00:29:52:22
Speaker 1
It’s like, I mean, if you, you know, for our listeners, our viewers, I think by now you figure out Steve doesn’t just do white Ellen, right. You know, this is the real deal.

00:29:53:03 – 00:29:58:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. It Africa is is extremely interesting.

00:29:59:07 – 00:30:15:11
Speaker 1
You know, you don’t just go to Africa anymore. You’re not just just a hunter, right? Correct. You’re, you know, lay it out there. Let’s see if somebody just a couple of years ago, you know, our friend Steve, he’s been our cook a couple of times and a couple of years ago.

00:30:15:11 – 00:30:25:18
Speaker 1
And we talk about our evolution as whatever the sportsman and all that kind of stuff a lot. I didn’t I was like, it doesn’t it doesn’t do anything for me. I really don’t want to go there and I don’t know why I can justify this in my head.

00:30:25:18 – 00:30:39:16
Speaker 1
Like the deer here are a nuisance. I have rob killing me. The turkeys aren’t so and I don’t mind that the the geese, they’re a nuisance to fly that far to Africa. A few years ago I thought, yeah, whatever.

00:30:40:03 – 00:30:49:20
Speaker 1
I would love to go with just a camera, you know, just because I do want to just see it. And you guys just got back from another successful trip. Yeah. And I’m like, Yeah, that seems pretty cool now.

00:30:49:20 – 00:31:07:04
Speaker 1
I’m like, trying to leaning towards, I think I do kind of want to try that sometime, but yeah, what is your affiliation with, you know, setting up trips for those people who again, might not think it’s in the cards for them, but maybe it is, you know, but walk us through what you can range and what the

00:31:07:05 – 00:31:15:00
Speaker 1
what’s it cost? From the time I go to the Indianapolis airport or any airport, the time I get back, what’s that going to run me? Okay.

00:31:18:21 – 00:31:36:20
Speaker 2
When I went in oh eight. I realized when I was there and I was thinking about it prior to going that Africa. Would work into our taxonomy business. Great, because their seasons are just the opposite of ours here.

00:31:37:04 – 00:31:56:17
Speaker 2
So right now we’re basically early June, you know, going into summer, they’re just going into winter. So there’s not a lot you can hunt here in North America. In April, May, June, July or August. So it’s a great filler from hunting here in North America, let’s say white tailed stuff in the fall or big game out west

00:31:56:17 – 00:32:12:23
Speaker 2
in the fall. You can go over there in our summer here in North America and hit their season dead on in the winter and hunt all kinds of plains game. And as you get more experienced, maybe get into some of the dangerous game and so forth.

00:32:14:01 – 00:32:39:23
Speaker 2
But what I do, I have been hunting with the same people over there since oh, wait, maybe you safaris and we have taken hundreds of animals over the the past 11 years. When someone is interested in Africa, what we will do is get with them and kind of see what type of types of animals they’re interested in

00:32:40:06 – 00:32:54:18
Speaker 2
. And then I will talk to HP with member safaris and get a price and will do some negotiating on price and animals and things like that and get somewhat of a package to start with is what we’ll do now.

00:32:54:18 – 00:33:09:03
Speaker 2
Once we get over there, the package package can change whether they don’t want to take an animal or they want to take something different. We also use another company that sets up all our airfare. If you are taking rifles, they will take care of gun permits.

00:33:11:03 – 00:33:19:07
Speaker 2
They will meet and greet us at the Johannesburg airport. So we have a representative with us at all times. So it is a 100% safe.

00:33:19:18 – 00:33:21:02
Speaker 1
Okay. Good point.

00:33:23:05 – 00:33:37:14
Speaker 2
We also have a company that sees all of our importation out of Chicago. So basically when someone in one wants to hunt Africa with us, we have our cells and other companies all in place to take care of.

00:33:37:14 – 00:33:39:09
Speaker 2
Basically, everything is what we will do.

00:33:39:16 – 00:33:41:12
Speaker 3
And they start the call starts with you.

00:33:41:14 – 00:33:56:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yes. Well, what? Give me a package you would recommend for somebody that, you know, white Midwestern guy. Yeah. You know my firefighter. Sure. Good call. Sure. Yeah, but somebody that’s got some, they want to. And this is a one trip time.

00:33:56:01 – 00:34:01:21
Speaker 1
This is one. Yeah. Yes. Once in a lifetime. What? Give me the 3 to 5 animals that you would really recommend. They, they.

00:34:03:05 – 00:34:20:17
Speaker 2
Definitely kudu impala. Gamma spark. Maybe a zebra. People like zebra. Personally, I can’t leave Africa without shooting a warthog. I’ve shot probably 15 warthogs, but I can never get enough warthogs.

00:34:20:20 – 00:34:22:13
Speaker 1
They’re like coyotes over there. I mean, they kind of.

00:34:22:13 – 00:34:26:10
Speaker 2
There’s a problem. Yeah, there’s a lot. And everyone’s different. The habitat.

00:34:26:15 – 00:34:30:08
Speaker 1
Rich environment. Oh, my God. Shut out. You don’t go blind. I didn’t see anything today.

00:34:30:09 – 00:34:45:03
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. That won’t happen. That’s not going to happen. Actually, last year, we had a young man that had wanted to hunt Africa ever since he was a little kid. He graduated high school last year, and he’d saved his money since he was a little kid.

00:34:45:13 – 00:35:02:02
Speaker 2
And he had an Africa with us. Wyatt. I think his package was about six or 7000, and that does not include airfare. Okay. So we’ve had packages of probably 5 to 6000 on up into the 20 some thousand dollars range or more.

00:35:03:01 – 00:35:20:21
Speaker 2
Africa, it it’s basically what your budget will allow as far as the number of animals that you want to take. So we like to start with. Okay. I would like maybe, you know, the kudu, the Impala, the warthog, things like that.

00:35:21:01 – 00:35:24:17
Speaker 2
And then we’ll kind of build from there as what we can do to keep it within your budget.

00:35:25:11 – 00:35:30:13
Speaker 1
So. So for $10,000. Mm hmm. I’m going to have a hell of a hunt.

00:35:30:14 – 00:35:32:20
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Okay.

00:35:32:21 – 00:35:39:02
Speaker 1
Absolutely. Now, you start looking at a whitetail hunt in Missouri for five days. Is half that? Yes.

00:35:39:12 – 00:35:40:00
Speaker 3
So you.

00:35:40:00 – 00:35:43:00
Speaker 1
Doing it? Yeah. Yes. So. But you can fly to Africa.

00:35:43:01 – 00:35:44:16
Speaker 3
Completely different experience.

00:35:45:06 – 00:36:02:13
Speaker 2
And with the Plains game. You for that cost, you will have an opportunity at the animal. Obviously, if you wound the animal, you still pay for it, right? Okay. So in other words, you know, I’ve been on hunts out west and so forth.

00:36:02:20 – 00:36:15:01
Speaker 2
Let’s say I book an Elkhart or a mule deer hunt. I may not get the animal, but I still pay that cost. Africa is not like that. No. If you wound it. Yes. And that’s something we can always talk about.

00:36:15:01 – 00:36:28:12
Speaker 2
He always encouraged people. You know, the question always is, you know, Steve, how far, you know, can I expect to shoot and so forth. Rifle hunting. You shoot what you’re comfortable with. You do not take a shot. You’re not comfortable with.

00:36:29:06 – 00:36:34:03
Speaker 1
So you don’t have a guide saying, take it. You should take it. Take it because, well, you’re going to get a bigger, you know.

00:36:34:08 – 00:36:39:20
Speaker 2
He might be saying, okay, you know, he’s in range. But if you’re not comfortable taking the shot, don’t take it. Do not take.

00:36:39:20 – 00:36:46:01
Speaker 3
It. Do you get clients that book An Africa Trip but really don’t have much hunting experience outside of that? Is that common or.

00:36:46:02 – 00:36:47:23
Speaker 2
I have had some. Yes. Yes.

00:36:47:23 – 00:36:55:11
Speaker 3
Interesting. Yes. I wonder what would make someone that’s they want to dip their toe in the hunting and. Yes. That’s the trip they make. Seems interesting to is.

00:36:55:11 – 00:37:00:20
Speaker 2
Possible and it you know it’s we could probably do a podcast just on on.

00:37:00:22 – 00:37:01:14
Speaker 1
That because.

00:37:01:23 – 00:37:24:09
Speaker 2
You know for instance if you’re rifle hunting prior to the safari, you’ve already discussed with the page what the expectations are and what you’re you’re looking for, you know, a good representative of the of the species. So in other words, when you’re you’re stalking through the bush and the puts the sticks down to shoot off of, you

00:37:24:09 – 00:37:43:15
Speaker 2
get on the sticks and, you know, 10 seconds, let’s say. So that’s one thing that a person really needs to practice at home. Put the sticks down, get on it, take your shot. Don’t take 30 seconds, 40 seconds a minute to take the shot, because I’ve seen that happen and I’ve seen a lot of game.

00:37:43:15 – 00:37:58:12
Speaker 3
I even feel I feel like in certain scenarios you just think about like if we were to sit in silence here for 10 seconds, it would seem like an eternity. But with your adrenaline pumping and getting the sticks down and even on this animal, it’s probably got it’s got to go like that, I would assume.

00:37:58:20 – 00:38:09:04
Speaker 1
Now, you know what I want to do? I just want to talk through the bush. Oh, you want if I was actually we’re creeping through some stuff, that’s probably when I’d be like, oh, crap, I’m in Africa stalking through the bush.

00:38:09:04 – 00:38:24:19
Speaker 1
Yes, this is actually happening. Here’s something I’ve seen, though. And please explain this. The guide has the sticks. The guide puts the sticks down. There you go. Shoot. In my Midwest mentality, I’m like, Hey, I can do that myself.

00:38:24:19 – 00:38:35:14
Speaker 1
I don’t need anybody to hold my gun or anything like that. But why is it important for for them to do that, for for that role to be somebody other than you? Are you focused more on the animal.

00:38:35:14 – 00:38:54:11
Speaker 2
Or they want you to focus completely on the shot? And I can’t stress enough for for anyone that’s going to Africa and if you’re going with rifle to practice shooting off of sticks put having someone put the sticks down get on the sticks, lean them back and then lean into the sticks and squeeze around off at your

00:38:54:11 – 00:38:55:07
Speaker 2
target practice.

00:38:55:07 – 00:38:55:20
Speaker 3
How you play.

00:38:55:20 – 00:39:08:06
Speaker 1
Practice. Yeah, that’s great advice because they’re, they’re, they’re difficult. Yeah. Even a Monopod Oh, absolutely. Monopod Yeah. Shoot on TV. You’re like, Oh, that’ll be easy. And when you do it, I mean that this will absolutely. So, yeah, great advice.

00:39:08:06 – 00:39:21:10
Speaker 2
Yeah. And what happens in Africa, lots of times, whether it’s the grass or the bush, it’s so high you can’t sit down, get into a prone position to shoot or anything like that. So that is one reason why they do use of sticks a lot in Africa.

00:39:21:15 – 00:39:34:19
Speaker 1
Danger. So tell me about the danger of actually hunting out there. Are you in any kind of peril when you’re walking around? I mean, listen, there are rhinos and lions out there. Yeah. I’m assuming there’s some level of danger much more than here, but absolutely feel it.

00:39:34:19 – 00:39:40:23
Speaker 1
Do you feel like, as your guide ever had to say, whoa, Steve, whoa, whoa, whoa, back out here. They’re going to charge or nothing.

00:39:41:04 – 00:40:00:16
Speaker 2
That we were hunting buffalo one year and we we kind of skirted the herd. They was going along the hillside and we kept the wind in our favor. And we got up into some bush. And instead of them continuing to go the same direction that they were, they decided to turn the lead cow and come right towards

00:40:00:16 – 00:40:11:23
Speaker 2
us. And I was actually running the camera and I, you know, just kind of got a weird look on my face and looked over at HP. And I’m like, I was thinking the same thing he was. And he, you know, he just said, this isn’t the time to be a hero.

00:40:11:23 – 00:40:14:07
Speaker 2
We just kind of picked up and got out cold.

00:40:14:12 – 00:40:15:06
Speaker 1
That’s the story.

00:40:15:06 – 00:40:32:22
Speaker 2
I’m looking, you know, and we ended up a few days later getting a good ball for the client. But you. If your tracker and your shoes go on walking on the right side around the bush, you’re not going to be going on the left side of the bush.

00:40:33:23 – 00:40:35:04
Speaker 2
You’re aware of your surroundings.

00:40:35:04 – 00:40:37:23
Speaker 1
And you’ve mentioned a couple of times that a professional hunter.

00:40:37:23 – 00:40:43:19
Speaker 2
Professional hunter and I say AHP, that’s my name. Okay. Okay.

00:40:44:16 – 00:40:46:13
Speaker 1
So HP has a page. Yes.

00:40:47:01 – 00:40:51:15
Speaker 2
It’s Hendrix, Petraeus, so forth and so on. We call him HP. So, yes.

00:40:51:15 – 00:40:52:04
Speaker 1
Okay.

00:40:52:04 – 00:41:08:03
Speaker 2
But I’ve been hunting with him for 11 years. But, yeah, I mean, there is the usual stuff. I mean, there’s the bugs, the spiders, the snakes. But you’re not out there to lollygag around. You’re aware of your surroundings at all times.

00:41:08:03 – 00:41:09:19
Speaker 2
And then in you won’t have any problems.

00:41:09:22 – 00:41:19:21
Speaker 1
And I think some of it’s free range. Some of it’s absolutely giant, you know? Yes. 45,000 acres. Yes. Okay. So it’s pretty much it’s enormous.

00:41:19:21 – 00:41:35:16
Speaker 2
Yes. In in I know some people think, okay, it’s it’s high fans and so forth. Um, kind of the way I look at it here in Indiana, let’s say there’s a big oaks down here. You know, people love the deer hunt.

00:41:35:16 – 00:41:42:17
Speaker 2
It it’s really no difference there. It’s a military former military base that’s 50,000. It’s 50,000 acres.

00:41:42:17 – 00:41:43:15
Speaker 3
We were out there this year.

00:41:43:15 – 00:42:05:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. Wonderful, wonderful place with a fence in a lot of the African. Properties, they can maintain the quality, the animals. Obviously, the fences do not pertain to whether it’s it’s elephant or leopard or warthogs. I mean, a fence doesn’t stop anything like that.

00:42:05:05 – 00:42:20:14
Speaker 2
Right. They can maintain the quality of the kudu and in the gams bark and things like that. You go to some of the countries that aren’t fenced and the game is just almost nonexistent. It’s been poached out.

00:42:20:22 – 00:42:23:22
Speaker 1
Oh, is that right? Yes. Yeah. That’s the other thing. They can be natural. Who’s in there?

00:42:24:01 – 00:42:25:08
Speaker 2
Yes, absolutely.

00:42:25:11 – 00:42:39:13
Speaker 1
Well, I don’t know if you know an Africa. It’s not in the cards for everybody. Sure, sure. They might not be into it. That’s fine, too. Absolutely. But if you think it might be something. Absolutely. Get a hold of you at that shop.

00:42:39:16 – 00:42:42:18
Speaker 1
Yes. Do you have a website? You’re on Facebook?

00:42:42:19 – 00:42:43:11
Speaker 2
I’m on Facebook.

00:42:43:13 – 00:42:44:04
Speaker 1
On Facebook.

00:42:44:15 – 00:42:46:01
Speaker 2
Steve. Keep her on. On Facebook.

00:42:46:05 – 00:43:03:13
Speaker 1
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Give him a call. Yeah, we’ll post we’ll post links. Yeah, we’ll give you a chance. And we’re not quite done yet. But I mean, we know a couple of your clients and we’ve seen pictures of big cats and some of the really and heard the stories of cool stories, really just what

00:43:03:13 – 00:43:12:09
Speaker 1
they’ve done. Accommodations are great. Meals are fantastic. All included. Yes. You know, this isn’t this isn’t a fly by night. You’re not you know, it’s not naked and afraid.

00:43:12:09 – 00:43:16:21
Speaker 3
Yeah. They’re they’re sending WhatsApp messages saying, I’m really roughing it out here in Africa. And it’s like.

00:43:17:05 – 00:43:18:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, go and do.

00:43:18:06 – 00:43:19:03
Speaker 3
That’s a freaking.

00:43:19:05 – 00:43:32:21
Speaker 2
Several. Yeah, several. These places I, my wife actually went with me in oh eight and I would not be afraid to take my wife on, on these other places. You know, the meals, the accommodations.

00:43:33:10 – 00:43:35:17
Speaker 1
Is there costs for a non hunter partner?

00:43:35:21 – 00:43:52:13
Speaker 2
There usually is. And it depends on packages sometimes, depending on what it is. There will be a cost. Other times that they’ll say, okay, let’s let the spouses come for free, or something like that. So that is kind of negotiable.

00:43:53:06 – 00:44:08:11
Speaker 1
I caught on to Disney in a few weeks. You know my wife? Yeah. There you go. There you go. She probably be up for that. Oh, interesting. What’s the flight like? It’s long. 16, 17 hours?

00:44:08:11 – 00:44:08:20
Speaker 2
Yes.

00:44:09:05 – 00:44:11:14
Speaker 3
Do you want a plane for that long? A lot of sleep.

00:44:11:21 – 00:44:26:19
Speaker 2
It’s. I always say it’s like sitting in a tree stand. You don’t look at your watch and I’ll watch some movies and try to sleep and things like that. But yes, it is long from Atlanta to Jo’burg. It’s I don’t know, 16, 17.

00:44:26:20 – 00:44:37:21
Speaker 1
Well, if you run out of Hartsfield in Atlanta, then it’s probably a five hour delay. Part is part of that. So. Yeah, I always I’ve been to Tokyo double times and some friend of mine had the greatest quote.

00:44:37:21 – 00:44:49:13
Speaker 1
I always remember it. He’s like, We’re going to get on this planet. If I could take an Ambien and sleep for 8 hours and when I wake up, I still have 8 hours ago. Yeah, that is rough. Yeah, it’s a long one, you know that.

00:44:49:13 – 00:44:56:17
Speaker 1
But it is. You know, again, they’re keeping comfortable. It is what it is. My gosh. Yeah, they did 20 years ago. They didn’t have iPads and movies. Absolutely.

00:44:56:17 – 00:44:57:17
Speaker 3
And the reward at the end.

00:44:57:17 – 00:45:07:00
Speaker 2
Of that, that’s what you look at. You look at it, okay. I’m going to be in Africa here for a week or so and in. I know. I know what the reward is going to be. So. Yeah, pretty.

00:45:07:00 – 00:45:20:03
Speaker 1
Cool board before you turn tail and say what’s circled back and talk real quick about the ticks. Midwest are you for the most part you’re you’re you’re concerned about ticks and the deer takes on the deer herd.

00:45:20:03 – 00:45:20:14
Speaker 2
Yes.

00:45:20:19 – 00:45:22:21
Speaker 1
Explain a little bit about your your thoughts on the.

00:45:24:15 – 00:45:47:02
Speaker 2
Excuse me, probably 15 years ago in our shop, very rarely would we ever see ticks on on white tailed deer. Now, I would say probably 90% of the deer that come in are. Infested with ticks. And in it, I’m talking just the cape for like a short amount.

00:45:47:15 – 00:46:05:22
Speaker 2
Literally have hundreds, if not thousands of ticks on them. And most hunters do not know that until you start raising up the hair and really inspecting them. And then you can see all these ticks. And the scary thing is when you see little kids carrying the deer and things like that and holding it and so forth.

00:46:06:08 – 00:46:15:00
Speaker 2
And some of these ticks are the size of pinheads. They’re that tiny. I’ve got two good friends that have gotten Lyme disease.

00:46:18:14 – 00:46:18:22
Speaker 1
They?

00:46:20:13 – 00:46:38:10
Speaker 2
There needs to be something put out there like this to make people aware of the dangers with these ticks on these deer. I know that there are minerals that you can put out on your private property that repels ticks from deer.

00:46:38:13 – 00:46:43:14
Speaker 2
And we have been using it for probably five years now and I know it works and I would highly recommend my.

00:46:43:17 – 00:46:43:21
Speaker 1
Pen.

00:46:44:10 – 00:46:44:21
Speaker 2
Reminded.

00:46:45:08 – 00:46:45:21
Speaker 1
Mentioned the name.

00:46:46:03 – 00:46:49:05
Speaker 2
It’s whitetail ecstasy and it does work.

00:46:49:19 – 00:46:51:12
Speaker 1
Why is it like to see interest?

00:46:51:13 – 00:46:56:21
Speaker 3
Is it a product of. Are there more ticks? Are they just finding deer more like me? What’s the.

00:46:57:04 – 00:47:14:05
Speaker 2
There’s more. There’s more ticks. Obviously, we’re having warmer winters. When I take a cape off of a deer and it has ticks on it, I will place in a freezer the freezer set on zero. If I take the cape out of the freezer in less than four days, the chicks are still alive.

00:47:14:05 – 00:47:14:23
Speaker 3
That’s crazy.

00:47:16:05 – 00:47:38:00
Speaker 2
So what we have this winter, a few days below zero? Yeah. You know, and I had. I had a. A gentleman in the shop. That was. I’ll put it this way. Highly educated. It works for the state. And I brought up the tic situation, and he said, Oh, we should be good, Stephie said.

00:47:38:06 – 00:47:43:12
Speaker 2
We’re supposed to have a killing frost this coming weekend. I just ended the conversation right there.

00:47:43:20 – 00:47:44:04
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:47:45:05 – 00:47:51:04
Speaker 2
People a few days in the twenties or even below zero isn’t killing the ticks.

00:47:52:06 – 00:48:05:04
Speaker 1
So what do we do? I mean, I’m not maybe I’m not saying you need to come up with an answer, but it’s a problem. So it’s a huge problem. So your point for mentioning this really is when you’re doing the grip and grin and you got the kids out with you and all that kind of stuff, you

00:48:05:04 – 00:48:15:05
Speaker 1
need to be really, absolutely pay attention to it, you know, straight in, shower, all that kind of stuff. I hate ticks. Yes, I have. I mean, I it’s a thing to me. It’s why probably one of the reasons I don’t love the turkey.

00:48:15:17 – 00:48:19:22
Speaker 1
I’m getting a little better. But yeah, we’re going out today. And I mean, the last thing when I left the house today was.

00:48:20:10 – 00:48:21:05
Speaker 3
I got my spray.

00:48:21:11 – 00:48:21:22
Speaker 2
Absolutely.

00:48:22:01 – 00:48:22:13
Speaker 1
And we do.

00:48:22:13 – 00:48:28:14
Speaker 3
So does that affect the quality of the taxidermy itself in Washington? Can.

00:48:28:15 – 00:48:47:19
Speaker 2
Absolutely. If if you see your deer and if it has ticks 99% of the time in the brisket area. The hairs are all going to be busted in the brisket area. So the deer has been rubbing and where it can reach, it’s also biting the ticks off.

00:48:48:10 – 00:48:52:13
Speaker 2
And if it can’t reach them, another deer will be biting them off. So they’re preening. Preening themselves.

00:48:52:13 – 00:48:53:07
Speaker 3
As well. Just wearing it.

00:48:53:07 – 00:49:12:01
Speaker 2
Out. Yes. Um, you know, in Africa, ticks have wiped out entire species of animals. Wow. And in Africa, you have birds to. To help preen the animals. We don’t have that here. So I guess what I’m also saying, if ticks aren’t killing our deer, there’s a good possibility.

00:49:12:10 – 00:49:13:11
Speaker 2
Possibility they will be.

00:49:14:11 – 00:49:19:19
Speaker 1
So one good winter with ten, ten days below zero. You think you might?

00:49:19:22 – 00:49:22:14
Speaker 2
I. I think it would take more than that, actually.

00:49:22:18 – 00:49:24:12
Speaker 1
Okay, I do. Yeah. I don’t.

00:49:24:12 – 00:49:24:19
Speaker 2
Know.

00:49:24:20 – 00:49:27:03
Speaker 1
Why do we get into climate change some of the time, but.

00:49:27:04 – 00:49:30:10
Speaker 3
Yeah. Tick invasion. Just thinking about it.

00:49:30:10 – 00:49:30:18
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:49:31:05 – 00:49:31:22
Speaker 3
Freaks me out. Yeah.

00:49:32:16 – 00:49:34:19
Speaker 2
Yeah. I’ll. I’ll show you some pictures sometimes.

00:49:34:19 – 00:49:35:04
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:49:35:12 – 00:49:36:10
Speaker 2
And you guys will.

00:49:36:21 – 00:49:37:05
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:49:37:14 – 00:49:38:10
Speaker 2
It’ll blow your mind.

00:49:38:12 – 00:49:56:01
Speaker 1
We’ve talked before we started here about taxidermy competitions, and you said, you know, you’re a humble person and you don’t want to brag. So let me just mention a couple of things. When people talk about taxidermy, I have a vision in my head of one thing that I saw at your shop, and that was a beaver, that

00:49:56:17 – 00:50:09:10
Speaker 1
it had a blue ribbon on it. We’ll just leave it at that. Okay. It looks like it’s underwater. Mm hmm. But it’s not. And it’s just when you see that, that’s probably the first time I thought that is.

00:50:09:23 – 00:50:22:03
Speaker 1
Art, in your word, that’s the real deal. I mean, it’s just the way the fur flows and the the the plant material that you wrap around it and it’s kind of like it’s diving and it just it’s everything.

00:50:22:03 – 00:50:28:05
Speaker 1
But the water is there. It is just really the stand in my mind, the standout piece of taxidermy that I’ve ever seen.

00:50:28:05 – 00:50:28:16
Speaker 2
Thank you.

00:50:28:16 – 00:50:38:17
Speaker 1
Yeah, thank you. Really, really sharp. So thank you. Last thing. Anything else? You know, let’s do the tale of the tape. Tell the tape. Just a couple of questions that we ask every guest we have. See how the answer.

00:50:39:13 – 00:50:43:09
Speaker 1
And so we’ll to on you. Number one, what is your favorite tree stand snack?

00:50:45:09 – 00:50:51:04
Speaker 2
Oh, boy. Tristan’s snack. I love my M&M peanuts.

00:50:52:11 – 00:51:03:22
Speaker 1
I like those myself. I usually have a Red Bull because I want to start all over again. Yeah. Want problem. Most used hunting app on your phone. Do you have any apps on your phone that you use?

00:51:04:15 – 00:51:09:01
Speaker 2
I do have the. The deer cast.

00:51:09:16 – 00:51:10:04
Speaker 1
Okay.

00:51:10:05 – 00:51:11:17
Speaker 2
I tried the deer cast last year.

00:51:11:18 – 00:51:12:10
Speaker 1
Did you think of it?

00:51:12:17 – 00:51:15:13
Speaker 2
It was interesting. It was interesting. It’s the first time I tried it.

00:51:15:14 – 00:51:20:18
Speaker 1
Yeah, I liked it. Yeah. You know, absolutely. I’m a bit of a jury fan, and we were out. Well, I admit.

00:51:20:18 – 00:51:25:04
Speaker 3
It, because they gave that thing away for free, too. And we were debating here how much they could theoretically charge.

00:51:25:04 – 00:51:26:21
Speaker 1
Yeah, we haven’t seen that this year.

00:51:26:21 – 00:51:27:12
Speaker 3
Has it been.

00:51:27:15 – 00:51:39:15
Speaker 1
Interesting? I thought it was cool, but you know, it put everything in. I’m usually got an app for the weather and an app for this, an app for that, and they just put it all together. The moon weather, the wind, the barometric pressure is all in one place.

00:51:39:16 – 00:51:44:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, that was pretty cool. Yeah, I would agree. Favorite state to hunt.

00:51:45:19 – 00:51:54:19
Speaker 2
Oh, boy. Um. I have to be. I’ll give you two. Wyoming and Alaska.

00:51:55:12 – 00:51:55:22
Speaker 1
Okay.

00:51:56:04 – 00:51:56:21
Speaker 2
If that’s okay.

00:51:56:22 – 00:51:57:19
Speaker 3
Would you rather.

00:51:58:08 – 00:52:10:07
Speaker 2
Wyoming. I’ve taken. I’ve killed a bull in Crockett Moose. Sharice Moose in Wyoming. I’ve killed an elk in Wyoming. And say, Alaska, I killed a caribou.

00:52:11:17 – 00:52:21:00
Speaker 1
So, yeah. Alaska, you. Oh, yeah, it is. Yeah, it really is. What outdoor show do you watch regularly? Do you watch any shows?

00:52:21:16 – 00:52:28:14
Speaker 2
I do. I really like Thom Aranda African.

00:52:28:21 – 00:52:29:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, he does a lot.

00:52:29:13 – 00:52:32:02
Speaker 2
Of it and a lot of bow hunting. I love bow hunting.

00:52:32:14 – 00:52:37:11
Speaker 1
Yeah. Okay. Well, that goes right in my next question. Firearm, crossbow or compound bow?

00:52:37:21 – 00:52:38:12
Speaker 2
My favorite.

00:52:38:14 – 00:52:38:22
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:52:39:16 – 00:52:40:05
Speaker 2
Compound.

00:52:40:08 – 00:52:41:23
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Do you use a crossbow?

00:52:42:01 – 00:52:43:21
Speaker 2
I don’t. Not yet. Not yet.

00:52:44:11 – 00:52:51:18
Speaker 1
I’m the same thing. You know, we’re we’re we’re very pro get people into the sport. Sure. So if that’s what it takes, then.

00:52:51:19 – 00:52:52:22
Speaker 2
Oh, absolutely. I.

00:52:53:09 – 00:52:56:01
Speaker 1
I haven’t quite. Yeah, I’ve shot one.

00:52:56:01 – 00:52:57:00
Speaker 2
I’ve hunted with everything.

00:52:57:01 – 00:53:07:11
Speaker 1
That is nice. Yeah. It does travel sort of further and a little faster. Yeah. So I do like it. The next question I’m gonna change up for you. It’s a what is your bucket list hunt. I think you’ve done most I.

00:53:07:11 – 00:53:07:23
Speaker 3
Was going to say I’m.

00:53:07:23 – 00:53:16:12
Speaker 1
Going to ask you, what is your bucket list animal timeout that you haven’t mounted yet. Is there one that’s like that’s the one I want to do next. Mhm.

00:53:17:16 – 00:53:37:23
Speaker 2
The one I want a mountain next. Wow. That’s a good question. I. Well, I’m going to redo it a little bit. I’ve done I’ve done several. But leopard. Because I have a passion to to hunt them also.

00:53:38:00 – 00:53:38:07
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:53:38:13 – 00:53:47:01
Speaker 2
A leopard is on a whole nother league of any other animal, in my personal opinion. So to get to hunt them and to mount them is just. That’s it.

00:53:47:01 – 00:53:48:01
Speaker 1
For me. One coming, don’t you?

00:53:48:02 – 00:53:48:11
Speaker 2
I think.

00:53:48:11 – 00:53:49:04
Speaker 1
So. Yeah.

00:53:49:16 – 00:53:50:07
Speaker 2
I think so.

00:53:51:17 – 00:53:54:21
Speaker 1
That is awesome, man. Steve, I we we greatly appreciate you coming.

00:53:54:21 – 00:53:55:16
Speaker 2
Well, thank you very much.

00:53:56:00 – 00:54:09:15
Speaker 1
You know, it’s just a topic that I don’t think really gets talked about much. People want to do it, but they don’t bring somebody in and say, hey, what’s the what’s the deal on? So, again, kicker taxidermy in wildlife in Greensburg, Indiana, wildlife art, I should say.

00:54:09:15 – 00:54:12:06
Speaker 1
I’m Greensburg, Indiana. Phone number.

00:54:12:06 – 00:54:16:20
Speaker 2
18126626430.

00:54:16:21 – 00:54:21:23
Speaker 1
And you don’t have to live in central Indiana. No contact, see? Especially about if you’re interested in an African hunt.

00:54:21:23 – 00:54:30:16
Speaker 2
Yeah, we’ve got some stuff that actually goes to North Pole, the safari, we got stuff, it goes to Denver. And I’ve never I’ve never even met the people before in my life.

00:54:31:06 – 00:54:44:20
Speaker 1
That’s that is flattering. It’s to be flattered. It is. But you’re going to do the work and they’ve never seen your shop, so. Yeah, fantastic. Well, we want to thank everybody for listening. We remind everybody that the American Hunting Podcast is brought to you by the American Hunting Lease Association.

00:54:45:03 – 00:55:02:22
Speaker 1
Everything you need to enjoy a safe, successful, affordable hunting lease all in one place. We have now added a monthly insurance option. So if you want to buy hunting lease insurance up to this point, you’ve been made to buy either March or August for the most part, regardless of when your lease starts.

00:55:03:01 – 00:55:15:17
Speaker 3
I do want to I do want to clarify. It’s not a monthly policy for every month. It’s a it’s a monthly start date on an annual policy. So if you need something that starts in June, you can by June, July, August, whatever you need to fit your lease schedule.

00:55:15:17 – 00:55:16:09
Speaker 3
We have for you.

00:55:16:12 – 00:55:34:00
Speaker 1
The days of working on the insurance providers schedules schedule are over if your lease starts in June. We’ve got a June 1st for you. If it starts in February or November, it doesn’t matter. You want the most value that you can because we want to keep this affordable, yet we want more people hunting, more people leasing, and

00:55:34:00 – 00:55:43:18
Speaker 1
the way to do that is to make it easier for them to do that. So the American Hunting Lease Association is a hunting lease, dawg. Pay him a visit. Thank you. On behalf, Joel. Steve Kinkade, thank you very much.

00:55:43:19 – 00:55:46:03
Speaker 1
We appreciate you guys. Listen, we’ll see it next time.

00:55:46:04 – 00:55:47:02
Speaker 2
So you think.

00:55:48:16 – 00:56:08:12
Speaker 1
The American Hunting Podcast is brought to you by the American Hunting Lease Association? Everything you need to enjoy a safe, successful and affordable hunting lease all in one place. Resources like the Secret to Hunting Private Land e-book and the front porch get both free to download to time tested attorney approved customizable lease agreements and of course, the

00:56:08:12 – 00:56:24:03
Speaker 1
most affordable hunting lease liability insurance policy you will find. Protect your landowner yourself and every member of your hunt club. With the league’s complete risk management package, the American Hunting Lease Association, better coverage, better service, all at a better price.

00:56:25:01 – 00:56:39:03
Speaker 3
The American Hunting Podcast is brought to you by Hunt stand out com and the Hunt Stand app build detailed maps of your hunting areas view and share your hunting area maps with a revolutionary online mapping technology and use advanced tools that let you examine and understand your hunting area.

00:56:39:11 – 00:56:48:22
Speaker 3
Then print your high quality, fully customizable map on several types of materials. Download the Hunt Stand App or print a map visit hunts to incom start mapping now.

00:57:03:05 – 00:57:17:07
Speaker 1
Hey, man, the fact that you’re still watching, it really inspires us, and we appreciate it. If you liked what you saw, if you liked the American Honey Podcast, please subscribe below. Like our channel. Find us on Facebook and Instagram and like us there as well.

00:57:17:11 – 00:57:26:21
Speaker 1
As much as we like you, we’ve also got some recommended videos and things for you to watch. So thanks again. Take care and keep looking out for us because we’re coming.