Transcription
00:00:17:02 – 00:00:22:10
Speaker 1
We’re here as your sound. Yeah. We’re recording. Everyone’s good.
00:00:23:06 – 00:00:24:02
Speaker 2
There’s a car in there.
00:00:25:12 – 00:00:26:12
Speaker 1
We’re here. We did it.
00:00:26:16 – 00:00:27:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s okay.
00:00:27:13 – 00:00:35:00
Speaker 1
This has taken a minute to pull the trigger, I guess. Pun intended, but. We’re Here, the American Hunting Podcast.
00:00:35:12 – 00:00:46:21
Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s kind of exciting, actually. It really is. And it’s it’s legit. It’s not just me and you talking in the truck finally. We’re actually here, and we have things that we think people are gonna want to hear, so we’ll see.
00:00:46:22 – 00:00:57:21
Speaker 2
Hopefully so. I know being our first one, I still made some notes. And then I saved these notes because I figure when we get into Rogan and Corolla territory, yeah, these will be, you know, have some value. Exactly.
00:00:57:22 – 00:00:58:06
Speaker 2
We were.
00:00:58:06 – 00:00:58:23
Speaker 1
Some frames.
00:00:59:01 – 00:01:13:20
Speaker 2
The first episode, podcast notes. Well, good. Well, listen, the first thing I want to talk about just real briefly and it’s I guess maybe not too briefly this morning, I get to work, I sit down. The first thing I get is a Google alert of a hunter that’s died.
00:01:14:08 – 00:01:26:18
Speaker 2
And this time in Ohio, we had a hunter die on the 15th of October is the first one I think we know of in Louisiana. Wednesday, the 24th of October guy dies. I guess he was he was 48 years old.
00:01:27:01 – 00:01:39:00
Speaker 2
He is in Ohio, goes hunting alone, doesn’t come home. Wife sends the police out, obviously, to look for him. And they found him at the base of a tree. And they look up and his his lock on stand collapsed.
00:01:39:08 – 00:01:49:06
Speaker 2
And allegedly or apparently he had fallen 30 feet and died right there. So. I mean, we talk about this stuff all the time. And I’m really kind of over it, you know what I mean?
00:01:49:09 – 00:02:02:13
Speaker 1
You know, it’s it’s one of those things where the last few years, your involvement with the Truth and Safety Awareness Foundation obviously is a big part of this, too. But we have this conversation more than we have to have this conversation.
00:02:02:13 – 00:02:17:23
Speaker 1
And we had a thing where we were talking about and we said, don’t be a statistic. You know, go home, be a father, be a be a son, be a grandfather. I just I can’t imagine. My brother going hunting and I get a phone call saying he’s not coming home.
00:02:18:11 – 00:02:21:14
Speaker 1
That’s that’s insane to me. And it happens every year.
00:02:21:22 – 00:02:36:02
Speaker 2
It’s really ridiculous. I said a minute ago I was over at I don’t mean I’m over it like I’m moving on. I mean, I’m tired of having this conversation that was so preventable, you know, and we we don’t have a lifeline here at the office, so there are no trees there in our trees.
00:02:36:05 – 00:02:55:09
Speaker 2
Exactly. We’re using them. This is a tree rope that goes just around the tree. And we’re taking these off of all of our trees and putting lifelines on if people don’t know what a lifeline is. This is a rope, you know, and it’s it’s a high quality climbing grade rope goes around the tree and then there’s a
00:02:55:09 – 00:03:09:09
Speaker 2
pressing not on it. And it’s, you know, if you’re just listening, it’s kind of hard to picture. But that process not actually keeps you in your stand. You can’t fall. So these were invaluable for years. And then just a few years ago, I was introduced to Lifeline.
00:03:09:09 – 00:03:20:04
Speaker 2
Now they became kind of mainstream, mainstream, but it’s basically the exact same thing. It just goes all the way to the ground and then you tie it off at the bottom of the ground and that knot slides from the ground up to the tree stand and back down with you.
00:03:20:09 – 00:03:23:14
Speaker 2
You’re literally connected the whole time. You can’t.
00:03:23:14 – 00:03:40:13
Speaker 1
Fall. Yeah, my foot doesn’t even touch a ladder unless I’m connected. I just. I don’t. I don’t understand. I know it seems maybe a little extreme, but it’s just not worth the risk. As much as we love going out hunting and hanging stands and shooting deer and doing all these different things, it’s.
00:03:40:16 – 00:03:42:10
Speaker 1
It’s not worth dying over, you know what I mean?
00:03:42:10 – 00:03:52:21
Speaker 2
Oh, you know, that’s the thing is we’re not talking about you broke both your legs. We’re not talking about a lengthy hospital stay or even you’re in a wheelchair. The rest your life, you’re dying. You’re not coming home.
00:03:52:21 – 00:04:04:09
Speaker 2
You’re not going home. Somebody has to have a conversation with your kids and explain to them what happened. And it kind of all ties together. You know, there’s been a slight decline in hunters over the last four or five years.
00:04:04:09 – 00:04:18:08
Speaker 2
I won’t go into that on this episode. But, you know, when when mom has to tell the two kids, hey, dad had an accident and you know, he’s not coming home and he died out there. I’m going to guess they don’t hunt.
00:04:18:16 – 00:04:31:23
Speaker 2
They’re probably done, you know, hopefully not. Surely they’re they’re probably done for a while. And I didn’t know this man or his family, so I’m not speaking for him. But come on, man. I mean, use lifelines, use harnesses in this guy’s 48.
00:04:31:23 – 00:04:51:00
Speaker 2
This this man, the guy that died in Louisiana, was 33. These are these are mentors to somebody. They’re showing somebody else how to hunt all the everything involved. And if you’re not showing kids, young people or even adults how to stay safe and just don’t even show them how to hunt, because you’re not doing any of us
00:04:51:00 – 00:04:54:11
Speaker 2
any favors if you’re not telling them how to be as safe as possible.
00:04:54:17 – 00:05:08:18
Speaker 1
You know, it’s it’s funny you say it that way because I’ve only been deer hunting. This is my third season. I’ve never I’ve never been exposed to hunting without a lifeline, without a harness. I and maybe that I’m lucky in that way.
00:05:09:05 – 00:05:20:22
Speaker 1
Hunting with you. I just don’t know any I don’t know any different. So even the thought of getting in a tree stand with nothing on, you know, just even thinking about it makes me just just a little nervous.
00:05:20:22 – 00:05:32:19
Speaker 1
So, you know, it’s a habit for a lot of guys. And we understand that. And we see conversations on Facebook pages and groups and things and guys just they’re in the habit of not wearing one. And you got to break it.
00:05:32:19 – 00:05:38:18
Speaker 1
You know, guys say it’s too expensive. They say it’s it’s inconvenient. It’s, you know, dying is expensive.
00:05:38:21 – 00:05:39:14
Speaker 2
It’s restoring.
00:05:39:15 – 00:05:40:10
Speaker 1
Your family. You know.
00:05:40:17 – 00:05:54:18
Speaker 2
That’s my favorite my my favorite point is they’re too restrictive. Dude, you’re standing on a two foot by two foot metal platform in the middle of a tree. You’re restricting yourself already, right? You know, there’s nothing restrictive about it, but it’s an evolution.
00:05:54:23 – 00:06:07:04
Speaker 2
You know, when I first started hunting, I had a way to with basically was to a belts still waist bell goes around my waist. There’s a little tag on it. And then the other belt goes around the tree and then that’s just it, you know.
00:06:07:04 – 00:06:16:01
Speaker 2
And I was being safe. There were people like, why are you wearing that? Like, Well, because I don’t fall out of a tree. Well, I found out that if you did fall, you actually invert and you hang there until you die.
00:06:16:01 – 00:06:16:13
Speaker 1
Not the best.
00:06:16:14 – 00:06:30:00
Speaker 2
Allegedly, you know. But I never fell. But I was being safe as I could be. And then, you know, obviously that went to harnesses and now it’s kind of lifelines. The stands are safer. You know, Trixie and Manufacturer Association does everything they can do to make sure that the stands themselves are safer.
00:06:30:03 – 00:06:39:15
Speaker 2
But even it continues to evolve because now we’re seeing box blinds. Now guys are just they’d rather have a box blind and they’re even bow hunting out of box blinds. So, you know, I don’t know where to stop.
00:06:40:15 – 00:06:52:21
Speaker 2
I love sitting in a tree. When I can’t climb a tree and sit in a tree, maybe I’ll get in box blinds. But until then, I’m, you know, harness. Lifeline. Stay connected.
00:06:53:08 – 00:07:04:08
Speaker 1
You know, ultimately with us starting this podcast, we were we were excited about this yesterday. We knew today was going to be the first day we were shooting this thing and having a conversation. Conversations we’ve been having for years.
00:07:04:14 – 00:07:21:13
Speaker 1
And we decided to turn the camera on and microphone on. Walking in this morning and getting you got a notification from TSA about another guy that died. It’s just. It makes this whole thing, it dampens the enjoyment just a little bit, knowing that because we were hunting yesterday.
00:07:21:18 – 00:07:38:17
Speaker 1
Mm hmm. You know, if we weren’t wearing that stuff, that could have been one of us. So coming into work, being in the hunting industry and having to hear these things and have these conversations, it’s not fun. And it’s just it’s it’s hard because you can connect with people sharing a passion of hunting.
00:07:39:07 – 00:07:52:20
Speaker 1
Just imagine that being the reason you die because you weren’t being safe is just. Yeah. It resonates with me personally. So, you know, it is important to have these conversations. And this was wasn’t the direction I thought we’d be talking about this morning, but.
00:07:52:20 – 00:08:01:22
Speaker 2
Well, yeah, it’s you know, it’s felt like we had to talk on it. We had to mention it so and we can move on. I do want to mention real quick. Tristan, safety awareness dot org is the website.
00:08:01:22 – 00:08:05:02
Speaker 2
If you want more information on that, you know why we can put it on the screen.
00:08:05:02 – 00:08:06:03
Speaker 1
Yeah, we’ll link that to.
00:08:06:07 – 00:08:11:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. So what’s our podcast going to be about though, if that’s not well, what else you want to talk about.
00:08:11:07 – 00:08:21:19
Speaker 1
Yeah. So we’ve been, we’ve been working together for a few years now and we have conversations on all the, the big three that you’re not supposed to do, whether it’s sports, religion, politics. We’ll talk about all that stuff.
00:08:21:19 – 00:08:32:13
Speaker 1
I think we’re going to leave that out of this podcast, but it makes a lot of sense for us to do this, I think because I’ve recently started hunting within the last three years and there’s just a lot of things I don’t know.
00:08:32:20 – 00:08:45:20
Speaker 1
So every time I get out in the field and I’m on a farm, I’m hanging stands, I’m constantly learning things and I have questions that are probably ridiculous questions that frankly, I think guys might be scared to ask online if they don’t have a mentor.
00:08:46:05 – 00:09:03:17
Speaker 1
And, you know, I’ve seen guys, especially on Facebook and some of these groups, man, they’ll ask a question and they just get eviscerated. I mean, guys just lied about and it’s crazy because it seems like the question is coming from a genuine place of curiosity and they want to learn this.
00:09:04:04 – 00:09:15:12
Speaker 1
And when you get I don’t want to say an elitist attitude, but when you get a response like some of these and it doesn’t always happen, but sometimes guys will just treat them like they’re idiots and it’s like, oh yeah, that, that drives people away.
00:09:15:12 – 00:09:31:00
Speaker 1
So I’m fortunate enough to hunt with you, work with you in the hunting industry. I feel comfortable asking questions. So I think if you and I are having conversations about, you know, the view of a third year hunter and a guy who’s been hunting for almost 30 years, there’s a lot of there’s a there’s a big knowledge
00:09:31:00 – 00:09:40:05
Speaker 1
gap there. Sure. So, you know, that’s that’s that’s why this makes sense for me to have this podcast, because I know other guys are in my position, too, and they have these questions and they don’t know who to ask.
00:09:40:13 – 00:09:42:04
Speaker 1
And sometimes they don’t know what to ask.
00:09:42:20 – 00:09:52:10
Speaker 2
Perfect. And, you know, I might not have the my answer might not always be shared by people. You know, they might. So that’s not how I do it. I mean, you think about field dressing a deer. You know, I’m a pelvic splitter.
00:09:52:22 – 00:10:03:17
Speaker 2
That’s, you know, that’s taboo for some guys. I was even called one day. You’re a pelvic splitter like that, you know? But that’s what I that’s how I do it. Who cares? The thing is, most hunters, almost all of us have common ground.
00:10:04:07 – 00:10:18:11
Speaker 2
You know, you talk about the big three in religion and politics. Most hunters are probably going to share those those views most. But boy, you walk in on somebody’s hunting ground or you you cross them somehow, man, they’ll come out.
00:10:18:11 – 00:10:33:04
Speaker 2
So, yeah, I know exactly what you’re saying. You know, I grew up going to Indianapolis 500. There’s nothing that I enjoy more than taking somebody new to the 500. It’s the first time they’ve seen it. And they’re just, Oh, wow, this is what I’ve been missing.
00:10:33:11 – 00:10:34:01
Speaker 1
A sporting event.
00:10:34:08 – 00:10:44:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, and a hunter. Hunting is the same way. I really get enjoyment out of seeing new hunters hunt, being with them, showing them, or, you know, showing them what to do, where to go, all that kind of stuff.
00:10:44:08 – 00:10:55:02
Speaker 2
And you’re a perfect example of that. I think Connor’s been on our staff about a year. Just this morning, we got him a new tree standing, like, okay, here you go. Here’s how you hang your tree stand. And, you know, hopefully he goes out and stay safe.
00:10:56:08 – 00:11:14:13
Speaker 2
But yeah, it’s pretty exciting. So so let’s talk about a little bit about where we are hunting wise this season. We were hunting a week ago, almost a week ago, and on our lease in southeastern Indiana and out steps a bona fide giant.
00:11:14:19 – 00:11:27:05
Speaker 1
I was sitting so I was sitting in a stand that we hung. It was one of the first ones we hung and we kind of knew where it was at on the corner of the property overlooking a field, probably going to be a gun stand and it barely an observation stand.
00:11:27:05 – 00:11:41:18
Speaker 1
And I knew that sitting there Sunday, so I had the camera out there, I had the nice lens and we had some deer on on trail cams and we were excited. And then these two studs walk out and it’s for me.
00:11:41:22 – 00:11:54:15
Speaker 1
So my first two years, deer hunting weren’t as fruitful as I would have hoped. We had a we had a lease that we had some trespassing issues on. And, you know, that kind of kind of ruins the situation for us.
00:11:54:15 – 00:12:08:09
Speaker 1
But we dealt with that the best we could. And I didn’t see a lot of activity. I didn’t really get to learn a lot from that experience when it comes to hunting and how to hunt big deer and how to do things the right way, I learned how to deal with trespassers, but I guess that’s a different
00:12:08:09 – 00:12:08:18
Speaker 1
story.
00:12:09:01 – 00:12:09:06
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:12:10:04 – 00:12:21:02
Speaker 1
Yeah. And then last year was last year was just a weird one for us because we had a we had a spot. That you look at the aerial on paper, it’s supposed to be a paradise. The landowner literally called.
00:12:21:02 – 00:12:26:19
Speaker 1
He had a field that was secluded. He literally called it the turkey bowl. Right. And we saw one turkey. It was just it was the.
00:12:26:19 – 00:12:28:11
Speaker 2
Most confusing.
00:12:28:11 – 00:12:29:06
Speaker 1
Situation.
00:12:29:10 – 00:12:35:14
Speaker 2
It was a bust for. No. To this day, I can’t put my finger on. I don’t know why. I don’t even don’t know. We had pictures of pretty good deer, too.
00:12:35:16 – 00:12:52:15
Speaker 1
So this year was this year’s exciting? Because we got it. We got a new lease and, um, checking cameras and just prepping for the season. And this is all still new to me. It’s been three years. And so when I see those two deer walk out, I’m just like, this is this is what it’s all about.
00:12:53:07 – 00:12:57:01
Speaker 1
This is what it’s all about. So, yeah, we were there Sunday and we saw those two guys.
00:12:57:13 – 00:13:08:07
Speaker 2
Well, you know, you mentioned a minute ago of being an observation stand in the fact that this was a new lease and we walked on it and the woods was really thick. So we set up what you call an observation stand that you’re exactly right.
00:13:08:07 – 00:13:18:08
Speaker 2
And you observe that night you had no shot. He wasn’t even coming over near us. And it is a rifle. We’ve actually changed out yesterday just to put in a ladder stand for a rifle season if we haven’t done anything since then.
00:13:19:07 – 00:13:30:22
Speaker 2
But you mentioned something to me yesterday in the truck that said you didn’t feel like you were deserving to kill that that and I don’t I don’t I still you have to explain a little bit because I didn’t really get it.
00:13:31:02 – 00:13:43:06
Speaker 2
Are you talking about you’re not deserving as a that it’s such a magnificent animal that you don’t want to harvest or kill it? Or do you feel like you’ve not put in enough time in your hunting experience. Yeah, that’s to have that right or.
00:13:43:09 – 00:13:52:10
Speaker 1
So it’s the, it’s the ladder more than anything. It’s I’m hunting with you and another guy who have you been hunting most of your lives?
00:13:52:10 – 00:13:53:05
Speaker 2
And he taught me how to.
00:13:53:10 – 00:14:08:21
Speaker 1
And he taught you how to hunt. Right? I’m the new guy here and I’m still learning and seeing those deer, taking those pictures where that was exciting. I told you how excited I was. Just taking a picture of those guys and and being able to actually kill that deer.
00:14:08:21 – 00:14:17:03
Speaker 1
If I have an opportunity to do it, I feel like I’d be taking something away from you and Tim just because you guys have been putting in the work. And I get it, we’re all in the least together.
00:14:17:03 – 00:14:21:17
Speaker 1
But, you know, I don’t feel like I’ve earned that yet. Does that make sense?
00:14:23:01 – 00:14:36:15
Speaker 2
Kind of whack it. You get a chance to kill it there. There won’t be two happier guys. I mean, Tim will drag it dude out for you. We’ll take all the pictures and. Yeah, but if I get a chance, you know, I’m flying in an absolutely no problem with it.
00:14:36:21 – 00:14:47:18
Speaker 2
Well, yeah, he’s pushing I think he’s pushing 170 and just a stud of a deer. But, you know, and I’ll ask you, this is a new lease for us. And so we didn’t know we are we had an idea.
00:14:47:20 – 00:15:04:10
Speaker 2
It’s a low corner with a drainage that connects to a fence row. So it’s like they’re probably going to come out here. But lesson learned, we didn’t just go plow in through the woods, you know, in July when we got this place and or even recently, Hank’s Mustang, three or four stands on the perimeter.
00:15:04:14 – 00:15:14:02
Speaker 2
Put some cameras up, get out of Dodge, check him every once in a while, and then we’ll start to move in. Do I want to kill a big deer this year? I do want to kill two or three dogs.
00:15:14:03 – 00:15:31:02
Speaker 2
I do. But I want this lease long term. Yeah, I want to stay here for five, ten years. And so I feel like it’s best to just play it slow. We’re still going. Good chance here. Sure. And coyotes and turkeys and all kinds of stuff, because, you know, this lease is an annual lease.
00:15:31:06 – 00:15:47:10
Speaker 2
We can mushroom hunt. We can do anything we want for the full year, recreationally speaking. Sure. So, yeah, so I don’t know, I’m excited about it. And then when you. Yeah, when I saw him you saw him in the morning that evening I saw him we had what we call a you know, we’ve called a standoff before
00:15:47:15 – 00:16:02:20
Speaker 2
where, you know, he wasn’t coming and I was already up like this. And so I leaned over and I kind of get my grant to and give it about that. And then he staring in my direction. And so I’m locked up for the better part of an hour because I don’t want to blow a 170 off our
00:16:02:20 – 00:16:12:09
Speaker 2
lease. If he makes me, he’s leaving and he probably won’t find someplace else to bed for, at least for a while. Until. Till a pretty girl brings him back. Yeah, you know.
00:16:12:15 – 00:16:31:03
Speaker 1
So I saw him this last Sunday, and then we went out yesterday morning, and I sat in the stand that it was basically on his trail that he had walked on Sunday. So I was on edge for literally the whole time and there was a shooting and I had to be standing to get a shot in that
00:16:31:03 – 00:16:49:05
Speaker 1
lane. So I was I was just so excited. I was anticipating him, you know, making that same walk there. It didn’t happen, which is fine, but it’s just cool to see, you know, you observe things, you learn about your property, you can set up stands, you can you can learn movement.
00:16:49:05 – 00:16:59:12
Speaker 1
All these things are so I’ve never done all this before and I feel like this is the first year I’ve had an opportunity to really learn how this how this works, how to actually hunt, not just go out and kill a deer.
00:16:59:23 – 00:17:09:12
Speaker 2
Right. Or just go on setting a tree. Sure. A blind tree. You know, I was talking to Connor earlier. I was like, you know, here’s the tree stand. Here’s how it goes up. It needs to be in a straight tree, basically, because it’s a ladder.
00:17:09:17 – 00:17:19:09
Speaker 2
You know, I was like, but don’t just find a straight tree, right? And hang it and go like. It’s a good tree. I’m comfortable. If they’re not coming by, they’re right. You know, you’ve got to find where they’re coming by.
00:17:19:09 – 00:17:35:19
Speaker 2
And it’s to the point where, you know, maybe new hunters are like exactly where you sit. Find trails. A trail is the most obvious, easiest thing to set up on, you know. So if you find a deer trail with deer tracks in it, maybe even some deer poop, whatever.
00:17:37:05 – 00:17:45:08
Speaker 2
That’s where you need to set up first or set up a place where you can see that trail that leads into a field. If that’s where they’re coming out, just kind of confirm their movement and you know where you go.
00:17:45:09 – 00:17:58:23
Speaker 2
It’s not you just have to go do it, man. I mean, literally and you know, as obviously we worked for the American Hunting Association and we do lease and we promote that and we provide all the tools people need to lease.
00:17:58:23 – 00:18:12:09
Speaker 2
But we’re pro hunting. Yes. We want people to go hunt. I mean, I think there’s I can’t Marshall looked at I was like 600,000 acres of public land in Indiana. Every single person that can hear my voice right now owns land.
00:18:12:21 – 00:18:27:11
Speaker 2
We all own land. Everybody owns land because every state has public land of some some type. There are 600,000 acres. You hear all the horror stories about public land hunting and all that kind of stuff. However, you know, there’s public land down near our lease.
00:18:28:04 – 00:18:41:22
Speaker 2
We saw the first truck down there yesterday and it’s getting kind of, you know, it’s it’s middle of the week kind of stuff, but it’s getting right. But up until now, you could have you could have walked in there and been alone and taught yourself how to hang a stand.
00:18:41:23 – 00:18:52:14
Speaker 2
And this is where I want to sit and do it. But you just have to get up, go there, park your truck, walk in and start hunting. It’s the only way to learn.
00:18:52:15 – 00:19:07:19
Speaker 1
That’s why I enjoyed the Big Oaks Wildlife Refuge. Go on that with you. Just because it was so different than anything I’ve done the last couple of years. It was it really was 100% blind. I mean, we went in there, we got drawn for the no show.
00:19:08:13 – 00:19:09:16
Speaker 2
It’s a military refuge.
00:19:09:16 – 00:19:23:00
Speaker 1
It’s a military refuge. And you put in for that and got drawn in there. You know, we ended up getting a no show draw. And then you picked a zone and we drove up there and. Walked in and we figured it out.
00:19:23:00 – 00:19:37:18
Speaker 1
And that learning experience for me was was interesting just because it was, you know, I didn’t have a chance to look at an aerial and plan things. It was just like, let’s see what happens. And you you’ve I mean, you have a deer hanging in your office right now that you killed it.
00:19:37:18 – 00:19:38:04
Speaker 1
Big Oaks.
00:19:38:04 – 00:19:49:22
Speaker 2
Yeah, I used to. I loved Big Oaks. In fact, I. I like a hunting trip. One of my favorite parts of the hunt is the night before it’s packing. It’s knowing that I’m ready to go. And when we get up in the morning, we’re driving somewhere.
00:19:50:08 – 00:20:06:15
Speaker 2
You know, I like that. I love the hike. You know, I like to hunt backcountry, all that kind of stuff. So, you know, yeah, I actually enjoy that and I think it was invaluable lesson to new guys. It’s because it’s another opportunity where people, you know, we tend to hear people complaining that access is dwindling.
00:20:07:03 – 00:20:23:11
Speaker 2
It’s not you just have to take advantage of what’s offered to you. That’s 50,000 acres. They control it. So there’s not too many hunters in a particular place. And it’s a little bit like playing the lottery. It’s not 1.6 billion like it was the other night, but a giant could step out at any time.
00:20:23:11 – 00:20:36:12
Speaker 2
You got 1000 acres. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, you kind of got to know what you’re doing in that direction or what you want to do. I should say we have you know, we’ve talked a little bit about the fact that the industry is losing hunters.
00:20:36:19 – 00:20:57:03
Speaker 2
Um, let’s see. I mean, it’s, I think it was 16%. So the U.S. Division of Fish and Wildlife does a study every five years. The last one they publish was 2016. We lost 1.6 billion, 1 million, 6 million hunters from 2011 to 2016.
00:20:57:05 – 00:21:01:10
Speaker 1
Were they able to pinpoint the reason for that or is it just we.
00:21:01:10 – 00:21:17:00
Speaker 2
Know we’re losing? Yeah, we just know that we’re losing hunters. Now, some people say statistically that’s not even significant because if we in the next study, it continues. That’s a trend. Now we got a problem. Yeah, it could be an anomaly or something, you know, of that nature.
00:21:17:00 – 00:21:33:21
Speaker 2
And every state reports differently. The report by reporting system can be pretty, pretty bad. But. So, yeah, we know we’re losing hunters. So that’s another reason we like to take new hunters is for that reason. But we need to reach out to adults.
00:21:34:04 – 00:21:48:07
Speaker 2
You know, if you’re a hunter or even a or a fisherman or a wildlife watcher or a hiker, anything like that, you want to be outside, talk to the people that’s sitting next to you at work. Talk to the guy that’s, you know, you see in the morning when you get to work or in the evening when
00:21:48:07 – 00:21:58:18
Speaker 2
you get back or anything like that. And if he’s showed any interest or she showed any interest in, you know, boy, you know, do you like deer meat? You how do you cook it? Hey, do you want to go?
00:21:59:14 – 00:22:16:13
Speaker 2
I’ll take you some time. Be that person. People think that, you know, it’s all kids. We got to get kids into hunting. Of course we do. That’s a great thing. But I’m more interested in taking people, adults who have no entry into the sport and showing them, Hey, here’s how this works.
00:22:16:13 – 00:22:26:22
Speaker 1
That’s me. I had no entry into the sport. I it looking at the outside, looking in hunting seemed intimidating. I don’t know what kind of equipment to buy. I don’t know.
00:22:27:03 – 00:22:29:18
Speaker 2
But what’s intimidating about it? It seems like.
00:22:29:18 – 00:22:32:11
Speaker 1
Such a big undertaking.
00:22:32:11 – 00:22:40:22
Speaker 2
But are you intimidated by what people are going to think if you ask those questions? Because there’s no it’s just you and nature. I mean, there’s intimidated.
00:22:40:22 – 00:22:53:04
Speaker 1
Yeah, I can only speak for me personally. I didn’t know where to start, period. Um, and then from what I see some of the conversations online stuff, I can understand why people would be turned off based on some of the responses they get.
00:22:53:04 – 00:23:07:09
Speaker 1
But that wasn’t necessarily the case for me, right? It’s just it. I’ve hunted Upland Game Bird for probably half dozen years or so in South Dakota with my family, my uncle, my grandpa. Those guys taken me out showing me how to do it, made their eye.
00:23:08:02 – 00:23:23:23
Speaker 1
It helped me understand that I didn’t have anybody to do that deer hunting with. And when I just the concept of deer hunting, buying a stand and finding a piece of property to hunt and going out, hanging, it just seemed too big for me to comprehend, too much to do.
00:23:23:23 – 00:23:40:06
Speaker 1
And I knew I would do something wrong and then it wouldn’t result in me maybe killing a deer. I would get discouraged and I wouldn’t want to do it anymore. So having someone like you or Steve or whatever kind of show me the ropes helps get you to the point where now I’m starting to become passionate about
00:23:40:06 – 00:23:40:18
Speaker 1
deer hunting.
00:23:40:18 – 00:23:45:14
Speaker 2
So just because knowing you’re on the right track helps you take the next.
00:23:45:15 – 00:24:03:06
Speaker 1
It does. It does. It gives me more confidence that, okay, I’m doing this thing the right way. I can have success doing this. And it’s not. You know, when you see the glamor shots on social media of guys with just monsters, even the I killed my first book last year and it was a little six pointer and
00:24:03:23 – 00:24:13:04
Speaker 1
I could not have been more excited about it. You laugh about the text I sent you because I was like I wasn’t cold, but my whole body was shaking and I was.
00:24:13:04 – 00:24:14:05
Speaker 2
Like, Look, that’s what you look.
00:24:14:05 – 00:24:24:16
Speaker 1
Like. And it was it was so cool. It was an awesome experience. And I’m not going to lie. You get online and you see these guys shoot bigger deer and I can’t help but just be a little jealous of that.
00:24:24:16 – 00:24:31:07
Speaker 1
I just go, oh, my dear, wasn’t, you know, it was special to me. But it’s not that deer, you know what I mean?
00:24:31:09 – 00:24:33:02
Speaker 2
Your deer tasted better. I guarantee it.
00:24:33:04 – 00:24:49:11
Speaker 1
I hope so. I think it did, yeah. Just because of what what went into it. And I don’t know, social media is probably another conversation about how what its effects on the are on the hunting industry. But you know, I just think the barrier to entry for me was this thing was so big or so robust, I
00:24:49:11 – 00:24:56:02
Speaker 1
don’t even know where to start. So why start? And I started hunting deer as an adult. So I’m one of those people you’re talking about.
00:24:56:07 – 00:25:14:04
Speaker 2
Well, we will do it. We’ll do a podcast on on the R three movement, which is, you know, a movement to recruit new hunters recruitment, retain retention, I should say. And reactivation, I think, is what it is. And reactivation speaks to those guys who used to hunt it and just got out of it and never got back
00:25:14:04 – 00:25:28:11
Speaker 2
into it. We kind of still want to get back in touch, so yeah, we can do that sometime. So what about access? Is access, you know, when I talk to people like access is the problem. It’s, it’s the biggest issue we have is we have no place to hunt.
00:25:28:14 – 00:25:34:11
Speaker 2
Is that you feel that or did you feel it? Or in all honesty, you worked you came to work for us? I did. I mean.
00:25:35:13 – 00:25:55:12
Speaker 1
Yeah, if I didn’t work for the HRA, it would be I’m kind of antisocial anyways. So the the idea of walking. Yeah, the idea of walking to someone’s front door, knocking on the front door and asking if I can hunt their property is just uncomfortable for me personally and I can understand if guys hear no all the
00:25:55:12 – 00:26:04:09
Speaker 1
time from land owners like that, they can get discouraged. And then that leads them to, you know, a piss on it. I don’t want it. I don’t even want to try anymore because I’m just getting shut down constantly.
00:26:04:09 – 00:26:20:11
Speaker 1
I totally get that. I don’t think access, knowing what I know now and being in the hunting industry in the position I’m in, I don’t think access is the issue. I think it’s. Obtaining the access. Guys don’t necessarily know how to go about it the best way.
00:26:20:11 – 00:26:28:01
Speaker 1
They don’t know what all their options are. And so they just say, Well, there is no access. There is. We just have to unlock the key to getting it for you.
00:26:28:08 – 00:26:42:17
Speaker 2
Right. I agree with that. And I’m going to talk real quick story we have on this new lease. We have 160 acres. It’s not a massive lease on 160 acres. I’m going to guess and I really don’t know that there’s 70 acres of woods, maybe 90.
00:26:42:17 – 00:26:57:07
Speaker 2
Till then, there was a patch of two or three acres of mature timber off of us. Actually, the first time I walked our lease, the fence was down. I didn’t realize that I’m standing in the middle on this edge of this three acres of mature timber.
00:26:57:07 – 00:27:06:08
Speaker 2
I’m like, Oh, wow, this is nice, man. I can’t wait to hang a stand here. And I’m like, Whoa, wait a minute. And I look at my phone, I’m like, Oh, no, I’m off, I’m off. So, you know, get back on the right side of the fence.
00:27:06:08 – 00:27:21:17
Speaker 2
And at doggone it, that’s nice. But there’s really nothing else to hunt on that edge of our of our lease or we go to the GIS site. You know, it’s a it’s a free site. It’s Google, the GIs for our county.
00:27:22:00 – 00:27:34:00
Speaker 2
And then. Pick up or pull up. That particular tract of land here’s the landowners do a little tiny little bit of research and we get their phone number. I call them on the phone. I call them on the phone.
00:27:34:00 – 00:27:45:17
Speaker 2
And just I left a message. They’re farming. You could tell their farming operation right in middle harvest. I didn’t expect anybody answer. And they didn’t. And I just left a nice message. It just said, Here’s who I am.
00:27:46:03 – 00:27:55:22
Speaker 2
I’m hunting a track next to yours. I know it’s only two or three acres, but, you know, it’d be really nice to be able hang a stand in there. Would that be okay? Very. Next day, I get a phone call from a lady who says, You know what?
00:27:55:22 – 00:28:09:11
Speaker 2
We never allow? Hunters seem like a nice person on the phone. She’s like, You’re going to be alone in there. Good luck. We wish you well. And it was just okay. I even said I was like, okay, would you like to meet us?
00:28:09:18 – 00:28:21:04
Speaker 2
And she said, No, not really. You’re fine. You sound great. And so it’s really just a matter of of I made an offer of not money. You know, I was just like, you know, anything we can do for you?
00:28:21:09 – 00:28:37:01
Speaker 2
You’d be happy to help? No. We’re good. Okay, fantastic. Now I plan on sending a thank you card for sure. Yeah. Take some summer sausage, something like that over there. But, yeah, we’ve got basically she gave us the the the the run of that little area.
00:28:37:10 – 00:28:44:04
Speaker 2
And then what it did was it gave us a whole nother area to hang on our lease. I mean, it opened up so far, allows us to spread out.
00:28:44:05 – 00:28:59:21
Speaker 1
Yeah, I was we hung a stay in there yesterday and when you were up there hanging it, I’m just kind of looking around going, Man, this totally changes the dynamic of our lease. This gives us it does it allows us another because we can access that piece now from her field and we don’t have to disrupt anything
00:28:59:22 – 00:29:09:16
Speaker 1
. It just it it, you know, we had it. We have a great lease in. And to me, it was amazing how two acres of woods can totally just it changes the outlook of it.
00:29:09:17 – 00:29:27:01
Speaker 2
It gives you a whole nother option. And, you know, the the thing I’m guiltiest of in hunting is falling in love with a tree stand. And I know guys, listen to this. You know, I’m talking about we saw that big deer the other day, and I think we’ve hunted that area five times since because everyone wants to
00:29:27:01 – 00:29:38:11
Speaker 2
see them come back. And that’s the worst thing you can do. Yeah. And so this gives us an opportunity to spread out. Point being, though, is I we actually did 10 minutes worth of work and a lot of guys that I think complain about, oh, I can’t find a place again.
00:29:38:15 – 00:29:45:09
Speaker 2
I knock on doors all the time. Okay, do you really? And I would be real careful if you have and you’ve been shut down.
00:29:46:01 – 00:29:47:02
Speaker 1
I’m sure guys have.
00:29:47:05 – 00:29:50:10
Speaker 2
Absolutely. But I think a lot of them just don’t.
00:29:50:15 – 00:29:53:15
Speaker 1
Maybe maybe they did five years ago and they haven’t done. Exactly.
00:29:53:18 – 00:30:09:20
Speaker 2
Exactly. So. And one of the things I did was make people, you know, along those lines is we’ve got a free downloadable e-book on our website and it’s called The Secret to Hunting Private Land. You’re free to go on our website, say a hunting lease dot org.
00:30:10:04 – 00:30:23:12
Speaker 2
And what we basically what we tried to do with this is put together tips when you’re knocking on the door of what you can offer. Now, here’s the thing. We didn’t have to pay for that two acres and it is two acres.
00:30:23:21 – 00:30:34:11
Speaker 2
If she would have said, do you want, you know, will lease it to that two acres. I would said, okay, we’re paying this amount per acre. I’ll give you that too, you know. But but she didn’t and that’s fine.
00:30:35:22 – 00:30:47:00
Speaker 2
You don’t always have to pay. And I get that. But at the same time, you know, there are sales tools now. There are there there there are methods of sales or whatever willing to get into that called the wedge.
00:30:47:00 – 00:30:59:14
Speaker 2
And you got to find out what people’s pain points are. People’s pain points have changed in 50 and a hundred years. They don’t need the fence fixed anymore for the most part. And again, again, yes, there are exceptions.
00:30:59:14 – 00:31:13:01
Speaker 2
I get I understand that what they need now, for the most part, is they need to know that their liability concerns are met. They need a little extra revenue to help pay for, you know, operating costs and insurance costs, all that kind of stuff.
00:31:13:01 – 00:31:28:11
Speaker 2
So, yeah, that does carry more weight. So basically what we’ve done in this e-book is we just the secret to hunting private land. It’s nothing. You don’t have to read 20 pages before we give you the secret is taking care of your landowner and that’s something we talk a lot about here is about landowners and people.
00:31:28:23 – 00:31:41:16
Speaker 2
People forget that the landowner, you know, it’s it’s all about hunting. It’s deer, it’s coyotes. And it’s oh, it’s all this cool stuff of hunting. And then they don’t address the needs of the landowner. And let me let me I’m going to read you some right numbers here.
00:31:42:02 – 00:32:07:20
Speaker 2
I didn’t he came prepared. I did, man. I’m ready to roll this thing. I take this serious Joe spin. Okay, so Hunter spent and this is in one year, $25.6 billion. Okay. On trips, equipment, licenses and other items to support their owning activities in 2016, 25.6 billion they spent on equipment such as guns, camping equipment, four wheel
00:32:07:20 – 00:32:24:21
Speaker 2
drive vehicles. That’s 48% of that, or 12.2 billion, $12.2 billion in one year. You’re all under armor stuff. You got all the Sitka gear, you got the you got the bows. We love elite bows. But then. They don’t want to give their land owner any.
00:32:25:09 – 00:32:28:02
Speaker 2
You know who reads these numbers? Landowners.
00:32:28:20 – 00:32:29:14
Speaker 1
They want a piece of that.
00:32:29:15 – 00:32:32:07
Speaker 2
How about a little something for the effort? You know what I’m saying? Look, they have.
00:32:32:07 – 00:32:47:07
Speaker 1
A resource that you have to have access to to use all the $12 billion or whatever it is that you spend on things. It’s worthless if you don’t have a place to hope. And if you don’t own land, you need to rely on somebody else’s resource.
00:32:47:08 – 00:32:52:16
Speaker 1
That’s just the way it is. Unless you’re hunting public and people do that and that’s great.
00:32:52:17 – 00:33:01:07
Speaker 2
We hope. We hope. Well, let’s let’s be clear. Yeah. I have. I love Durant. Who’s your national force? We just turkeys down there. We have deer hunting down here a lot.
00:33:01:07 – 00:33:05:09
Speaker 1
I up north I hunt Kingsbury where I grew up. So we work.
00:33:05:21 – 00:33:11:09
Speaker 2
We love public ground. I want the government to buy more public. Absolutely. It’s good. It’s a great resource. You know.
00:33:11:15 – 00:33:26:02
Speaker 1
I think guys will agree, though, getting access to private land gives them the opportunity to kill that boon or kill those ideas that they that you see on social media that these guys dream about. And it gives you more freedom to control what’s going on in that habitat.
00:33:26:02 – 00:33:41:19
Speaker 2
And I think that’s the more I think that’s the bigger lesson. Can you kill a burner? Yeah, but you could kill on a public. Sure, but you have the opportunity to grow deer, to pass deer that have a better chance of living and becoming older and thus bigger, if that’s what you’re into, you know, like a six
00:33:41:19 – 00:34:02:19
Speaker 2
year, six pointer, a two year old, that’s fine. We’re good with we love all of that. But yeah, the landowners have needs because they’re paying they they’re laying money out for people to come access their property. And they just you know, it’s our position, honestly, that before, you know, we talk about this paradigm shift all the time
00:34:02:19 – 00:34:13:20
Speaker 2
, before you buy all the stuff that you buy and we know you’re buying it. It’s a fact. Ammo, I mean, even and even the hunter who’s a little on a tight budget, we you spend some money.
00:34:13:23 – 00:34:15:04
Speaker 1
You got a you got to have equipment.
00:34:15:09 – 00:34:26:00
Speaker 2
You got to and you know, I read something on our Facebook page about all, you know, leasing is all big dollar clubs. Big dollar. Give me a break. You know, give me a.
00:34:26:00 – 00:34:27:01
Speaker 1
Break. It’s just not true.
00:34:27:03 – 00:34:40:01
Speaker 2
It’s just not true. You know, the vast majority of guys that we talked to, I always like to say they shower after work. You know, they look all dirty, they come home sweaty. They need to take showers when they get home from work.
00:34:40:13 – 00:34:51:05
Speaker 2
That’s who it is. And they’ve put a different priority on it. You and I and Tim, on our on our lease where we pay 1300 dollars. 1300 bucks. Okay. Yeah, maybe somebody like, oh, that’s a lot of money.
00:34:51:12 – 00:34:53:02
Speaker 1
But it is it is a lot.
00:34:53:02 – 00:34:54:00
Speaker 2
A lot of money. Sure it.
00:34:54:00 – 00:35:12:03
Speaker 1
Is. But we’re prioritizing access to the we talked earlier about some of the deer we’re seeing on this property and that 1300 dollars that, you know, I understand that I can’t buy other things. And that’s okay to me throughout the year because I want to be on this property, hunting this property.
00:35:12:03 – 00:35:20:15
Speaker 1
It means that much to me. You know, you were a firefighter for 26 years. You’re not a millionaire, rolled around a new truck not. And you’ve been leasing for decades, you know.
00:35:20:15 – 00:35:21:15
Speaker 2
70,000 miles.
00:35:21:15 – 00:35:33:12
Speaker 1
Much. You’re the blue you’re the blue collar guy that we’re talking about right now. If you you have a great story about one of your first leases was like 4700 bucks. And you you literally broke it down to per guy.
00:35:33:12 – 00:35:43:19
Speaker 1
What it costs if we’re going to hunt this many times, I mean, you can break things down that on a granular, granular level that much. And the lump sum seems like a lot of money and it is a lot of money.
00:35:43:19 – 00:35:52:04
Speaker 1
I’m not downplaying the fact that each of us paid 1300 dollars. I get that. But if it’s really a passion, if it’s really priority, you’ll make it work.
00:35:52:09 – 00:36:04:01
Speaker 2
I got a set of golf clubs that maybe got out three times this year. Before we, you know, my passions changed. You know, I had golf tee times. It’s not it’s not a big deal, you know, it’s just it’s what I’ve decided to do.
00:36:04:08 – 00:36:18:17
Speaker 2
But I just I don’t I always take exception to the people, like, well, we can’t afford to hunt now because people are leasing. And it’s not true. It’s just not true. It’s fundamentally wrong. That’s nothing that we’re going to harp on this podcast, I promise you, because I mean, I’m not I’m happy to defend it, but I’m
00:36:18:17 – 00:36:30:01
Speaker 2
also kind of done defending it because it doesn’t need defend anymore if you’re not leasing. Some ground, you might be missing an opportunity. And if you get your ground for free, like we are two acres. God bless. How about it?
00:36:30:21 – 00:36:47:13
Speaker 2
Congratulations. That’s a great thing. Yeah, I just want people out in the field. I want to go. Just kind of back to real quick. The secret to hunting private land. Again, I’d mention it’s a free download. It’s got all the explanations people need in it to to access private land.
00:36:47:19 – 00:36:58:06
Speaker 2
One of the things that’s in there you’ll find is a link to the free for what we call the front porch kit and the front porch kids. Just that it’s when you go knock on the door, take this with you.
00:36:58:07 – 00:37:09:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. And basically, it just shows. Here’s what we’d like to do. You know, we’ve got a lease agreement here that if you’d like to, we can we can sign a contract that and we’ll agree on a little bit of money.
00:37:09:07 – 00:37:28:05
Speaker 2
And we can also provide this insurance policy for you, which is $185 is most of them. It’s dirt cheap. And you take this stuff with you, man. That’s what landowners want to see. They don’t want to see a guy standing on the porch because you’re the third or fifth guy that’s driven by this week and saw big
00:37:28:05 – 00:37:41:08
Speaker 2
deer out there or any bunch of deer or turkeys. And you stopped and you knocked on my door. And by the way, I made a phone call last week for another piece of ground, the borders. And I got yeah, you can track a deer, but I don’t want any hunters on the ground.
00:37:41:09 – 00:37:54:16
Speaker 2
Okay, sure. That’s fine. Absolutely. You’re right. You know, and so they don’t all work out, that’s for sure. But that’s what they want. So they just want to see somebody with some empathy. Somebody says, listen, I get it.
00:37:54:16 – 00:37:58:18
Speaker 2
I know what you’re going through and I know what your concerns are. And I’m here to address those concerns.
00:37:58:22 – 00:38:11:21
Speaker 1
It’s a responsible way to approach trying to get access to land. It shows the landowner that, Look, I’ve done my due diligence. I take this thing seriously. I’m a responsible person. I’m not trying to, you know, blow smoke or do anything else.
00:38:11:21 – 00:38:19:15
Speaker 1
I just I want to have the opportunity to hunt your your piece of ground and. Right. This this helps legitimize that stance when you knock on the door.
00:38:19:16 – 00:38:20:11
Speaker 2
Right. And it’s free.
00:38:20:11 – 00:38:20:23
Speaker 1
And it’s free.
00:38:21:01 – 00:38:33:06
Speaker 2
We’re just trying to be a resource here. We want to provide as much information and assistance as we can to get people in the field. Yep. So you mentioned earlier in this be the last time we talk about you mentioned earlier that we work in mining industry.
00:38:34:20 – 00:38:49:20
Speaker 2
You know, I saw I want to say it was like Scotty Schultz, Steve Stolt, doggone it. Somebody on a hunting video. Mm hmm. 20 years ago, he said, make your passion, your paycheck. It is the secret to life, man.
00:38:49:21 – 00:39:02:08
Speaker 2
It really is. And that’s, you know, even my family. Everybody’s family. They’re like, I go to work or whatever. My my sincere prayer and hope for everybody is at some point in your lives, you can make your passion, your paycheck.
00:39:02:15 – 00:39:18:16
Speaker 2
I’ve been blessed to make it my paycheck a couple of times, first in the fire service and now in the hunting industry. I do want to warn some of your younger listeners or viewers. It’s not all hunting 365.
00:39:18:23 – 00:39:30:23
Speaker 2
It’s it’s spreadsheets and conversions and marketing and sales and all those type of things that go into a business, a successful business. But at the end of the day, we also talk about hunting a lot. And so it’s been fantastic.
00:39:31:04 – 00:39:48:22
Speaker 2
And I mention that because I know one of our partners, Basecamp Country, is starting a real estate company. And if you know the guys from Basecamp leasing and we do their first rate, they’re going to win. You know, I learned a long time ago back a winner.
00:39:49:11 – 00:40:07:04
Speaker 2
They’re going to do this thing first class. They’re going to be in the real estate, the recreational real estate industry. And they’re looking for agents. They’re looking for qualified real estate agents that have a passion for not only helping people find their dream, but but put them on, you know, the path to being a landowner.
00:40:07:04 – 00:40:07:08
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:40:07:08 – 00:40:23:21
Speaker 1
So that’s going to start in Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky and Illinois. Awesome. So if you’re in one of those states and your license and you want a job in the outdoors industry Basecamp country dot com fill out an application sending a cover letter, give them a call, just have the conversation.
00:40:23:21 – 00:40:25:21
Speaker 1
At least you never know what could what it could lead to.
00:40:25:21 – 00:40:38:05
Speaker 2
So yeah, I mean, like I said earlier, if you’re tired of showing people houses and condos and your put on some jeans and some boots. Yeah. And show them around and identify pinch points and all that kind of recreational good stuff, man.
00:40:39:00 – 00:40:41:11
Speaker 2
They’re going to do a killer job, I promise you that.
00:40:41:11 – 00:40:52:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. And we’ll put a link to Basecamp country dot com in the description. You go there man that’s like we’re done. That’s episode already done. So I don’t really know how to end this. I didn’t think of an outro.
00:40:52:23 – 00:40:56:09
Speaker 2
I’m afraid of my look at Connor Bobby is going to be that was 5 minutes.
00:40:56:18 – 00:41:14:09
Speaker 1
I got to kind of feels like we flew through it. But no, I’m excited about what’s to come for this podcast, for what we’re trying to do with the American Hunting Lease Foundation coming in 2019. Yeah. So we’ll have a lot to talk about here soon and we’ll do this thing hopefully once a week and see.
00:41:14:09 – 00:41:16:05
Speaker 1
We can see we can put out there.
00:41:16:05 – 00:41:17:12
Speaker 2
Sounds good. Cool Harbor.
Leave A Comment